Quote:@Shizune I don't know if it actually counts as a nomad ship, but the scorpion is definitely SRP-able for humans (though that might be because it falls more into the Wilde spectrum).
You would be correct that you can and it has been done by whoever plays Rip Red Rorry, as Rorry has his own Scorpion GB
(01-22-2015, 03:10 AM)boxcartenant Wrote: Are ALL Nomads ships, or is it just some of them? Does anyone even know?
See nomad lore.
(01-22-2015, 03:10 AM)boxcartenant Wrote: If it's all of them, then a) Nomads should *definitely* start with enough money to buy a ship, and b) This doesn't rule out the possibility of someone developing enough relationship with a Nomad to cooperate with it. Plus, since we don't know much about nomad science, and they may as well know a lot about our biology and technology, they could potentially assimilate a pilot -- especially if they're programmed to "evolve" via "continual service improvement".
See nomad lore.
(01-22-2015, 03:10 AM)boxcartenant Wrote: If it's not all of them, then who's flying the Nomad ship? It's a nomad that's not a ship who's flying it. If that's the case, then it's conceivable that someone could, possibly needing extensive genetic re-engineering, (likely attainable via strong positive relationship), fly a Nomad ship.
Again,see nomad lore.
(01-22-2015, 03:10 AM)boxcartenant Wrote:
Quote:Because of "i wanna fly nomad ship...." there was no indie nomads back in time,and it was good!!!
First of all, this sentence doesn't make sense; but if I'm interpreting you correctly, you're wrong about lack of individuality being a good thing in any case, even for [especially for] role play. Also, aren't you part of The Order? If so, it makes sense that you would want the Nomads to be impossibly lame.
Ill paraphrase:
Playing as nomad is not recommended for new players at all!Nomads ships used to be given via admins only.
No,im not order.
Thanks for the post. The nomad lore is like an hour of reading, when some of these replies have led me to believe all that's typical for a Nomad is to ~*|talk funny|*~ and shoot players in Omicron (not that difficult, very little behavioral variety). How about this: you go read War and Peace, and then explain again why Nomads can't afford to buy any of their own ships.
No. Explaining more is unnecessary. It seems the goal is to keep Nomads reserved for players who have been in another faction for a long time. Doesn't make much sense strictly from a "game-universe" perspective, since the way they've set it up breaks the fourth wall mid-game as soon as you realize you're optionless. If you're not concerned with making the in-universe mechanics self-sufficient for keeping lore alive, then this kind of external limitation doesn't need to make sense. The game is only partly played within Freelancer, and mostly takes place on the forums; I get it now.
Quote: It seems the goal is to keep Nomads reserved for players who have been in another faction for a long time.
A while ago, Nomads were a very closed faction, accepting only these who have proven themselves with previous RP, and Nomad ID was not obtainable for the public. Now this has changed and we have people crying about Nomads being too difficult.
What?
Quote:How about this: you go read War and Peace, and then explain again why Nomads can't afford to buy any of their own ships.
No, and because that's not how game mechanics work. I don't recall ever earning money for any ship that wasn't my first one. At first you make a transport, then you go trade, and then when you want fighters you just /drawcash 40 millions and you're good to go.
Quote:The game is only partly played within Freelancer, and mostly takes place on the forums; I get it now.
It's actually the opposite, for the most people. How much you choose to forumlance and how much to dedicate to the actual game is entirely your own choice.
Quote:No, and because that's not how game mechanics work. I don't recall ever earning money for any ship that wasn't my first one. At first you make a transport, then you go trade, and then when you want fighters you just /drawcash 40 millions and you're good to go.
The starting ship for Nomads is the Camera Ship. In the description, it says "utilizing it for any purpose other than cinematography... [is not allowed]". You can't afford anything else, so the only way to get a nomad ship is to buy one using money from another character, as you've said.
[Side note: Are nomads the only class with this limitation?]
If you've never earned money for a ship that wasn't your first ship, then the only tangible progress you've made in the game is:
1. Buying new weapons (If you even do this. Once you've got your money, you may as well just buy what you want and keep it)
2. Moving to a new system
3. Changing faction rep (and this is massively limited by the current structure of the faction system)
Killing another ship doesn't count as tangible progress in and of itself, because there's no direct, permanent takeaway
So your character starts with his background already decided for him (to some extent, this is necessary, but you guys have taken it much beyond the mechanics of the game). You haven't made a character that had to work for his own ship (except by grinding trade routs with your other character), so his back story only exists as something you've made up in the forum. As you've noted, because of the way it's set up, playing the game any other way is unrealistic (as in, extremely difficult).
However, the rules are that you are expected to role play. Since your character's back-story can't be built by actual events, the role cannot be played out or has never happened, and it only exists in the forums. You don't develop your role, you just decide what it is and play it, starting mid-to-late-career for your character. Therefore, most of the game events actually happened in the forum.
(01-23-2015, 10:11 PM)boxcartenant Wrote: The starting ship for Nomads is the Camera Ship. In the description, it says "utilizing it for any purpose other than cinematography... [is not allowed]". You can't afford anything else, so the only way to get a nomad ship is to buy one using money from another character, as you've said.
You flying to the Shrine does not happen inRP. Cash transfer via /givecash or /drawcash commands does not happen inRP. Paying millions of Sirian Credits to buy a Nomad Morph does not happen inRP. These are just the necessary things you need to do to set up your nomad character. InRP it grows in a cell or egg like thing until it hatches, and when it hatches, you begin roleplaying it. The moment you set up and say it's ready for action. Nomads don't trade goods for cash anyways, that's a human feature.
(01-23-2015, 10:11 PM)boxcartenant Wrote: If you've never earned money for a ship that wasn't your first ship, then the only tangible progress you've made in the game is:
1. Buying new weapons (If you even do this. Once you've got your money, you may as well just buy what you want and keep it)
2. Moving to a new system
3. Changing faction rep (and this is massively limited by the current structure of the faction system)
Killing another ship doesn't count as tangible progress in and of itself, because there's no direct, permanent takeaway
Progress here isn't measured by how much credits one earned with a ship.
(01-23-2015, 10:11 PM)boxcartenant Wrote: So your character starts with his background already decided for him (to some extent, this is necessary, but you guys have taken it much beyond the mechanics of the game). You haven't made a character that had to work for his own ship (except by grinding trade routs with your other character), so his back story only exists as something you've made up in the forum. As you've noted, because of the way it's set up, playing the game any other way is unrealistic.
However, the rules are that you are expected to role play. Since your character's back-story can't be built by actual events, the role cannot be played out or has never happened, and it only exists in the forums. You don't develop your role, you just decide what it is and play it, starting mid-to-late-career for your character. Therefore, most of the game events actually happened in the forum.
Background is only one of many factors having an effect on how one's roleplay may continue from that point. The problem with the above two paragraphs I quoted is that with them you imply one's character cannot evolve, cannot be affected by events from outside the reach of the player, predetermined by it's background. This doesn't necessarily have to be this way. While nobody prevents you to have a static and shallow character, neither does anybody force you to roleplay your character that way. Backstory is only a basis to start from, past that point even the entire roleplay can happen in-game only. And it is up to the players themselves to decide where they want to set that starting point, roleplaying a 45 year old war veteran is no worse than roleplaying a 22 year old fresh recruit.
Thyr, it seems to me the case here is that the guy you're arguing with is doing it just for the sake of stupid arguing because of having a difficulty grasping the basic and obvious fact this is a mod to a closed-source game where there are very definitive limits as to what we can do about a lot of things. Many of which, quite frankly, are just silly nitpicks.
(01-23-2015, 11:21 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: I'm not so certain about that yet, and I want to be sure of it myself before assuming that's the case.
Oh I had thought at first his questions were actually genuine, but after reading the entire thread in one go that seems no longer the case. And that is quite unfortunate, because I was actually writing a lengthy reply on the subject of hows-and-whys and well, looks like it will not be of much help there*.
* - unless you'd argue finer points of that, hehe.
edit: I don't know, because the way it all went it looks to me like a complaint about why there are mechanics that feel 'counter-immersive'. Well, but don't we know the games are full of that stuff in general? All those gameplay and interface conventions, some ugly, some irritating, some are just there because of a lack of anything better that would work in its place. It's a game after all, not a simulator aiming for authenticity, granted what kind of authenticity could be there in the first place...
Quote:Since your character's back-story can't be built by actual events, the role cannot be played out or has never happened, and it only exists in the forums.
This sentence is incorrect and therefore your entire train of thought goes crashing down to hell.
Although I probably am not as much of a person to have a say in this since for me game mechanics > rp.
So I'm stupid and wrong.
Whatever.
The reason I'm not convinced enough to believe he's just trolling is that I've checked his intro thread in the Welcome section, and he claims to be an old Disco player from at least 5 years ago. While I don't remember what was Disco like at that time as I only came in 2011, I still have my concepts (based on tales of older players) about what the game was like before 4.85. Lacking the RP aspect compared to what we have now, and thus I could understand that certain things might be weird for a guy who got used to a more relaxed Disco than what it is now.