Jinx, I think the problem is that fundamentally you're approaching it from ideological position, and all those notions of "full transparency" and "no more lead devs" come from that, not from practical way of doing things. Name me successful game development companies that do not have "leads" in their respective fields in the staff. Hierarchy is there for a reason, plenty of times there can be 'draws' between proposed stuff and so a necessity for a final decision. Just as some people have to keep consistency across the board or at specific area. Voting isn't a cookie-cutter solution that fits all decision-making processes, no need to look any further than RL to know well how botched and misused that method often is. And in closed-knit teams it can create cracks and chasms between people through internal strife and politics. So what may sound nice in theory isn't always so in the end, and I've seen my share of that happening, here and elsewhere. I've yet to see completely flat structure you seem to yearn for, even Valve too has hierarchy. "Weekly or at least bi-weekly meetings via skype with ALL devs" - some task-specific meetings might be fine, although not periodic but rather arising whenever needed. Again, keeping to a practical approach. Instead of ideological-like inclusion of everyone with time allocations - that's just a one big mess. I don't hang around dev chat anymore and it was one of the reasons I left disco in the first place back then, frustration from endless daily debates grows and I'd rather spend my free time productive - that is actually working on things than to walk rounds and rounds of endless circles of discussions that lead absolutely nowhere.
edit: flat structure sure does appeal to broad audience, as I suppose it once appealed to me too but that was long time ago. It is something the audience can relate to personally in an ideological sense, something that many would yearn for, materialized equality and all that lovely stuff, but not in a practical sense, meaning it's just theoretical exercise of a spherical cow in vacuum. Bottom line: not everyone is the same, skillset often varies wildly, even within one type of development there are many ways to skin a catmodel, and so yielding different experiences, mindsets too. Stuff that makes us all individuals we are. A working system is the one that plays on strengths of individuals, makes best use of their skills as opposed to lowering or rising everyone to the same level. Not all opinions are equal for some are merely reactionary responses as opposed to more thoughtful ones with a research done, and it's often the reason why opinion voting systems aren't practical solutions for some problems, large and small. In some cases may work, in some don't. Again, playing by strengths of options and tools available and not weaknesses and known issues, if the intent to be efficient and get the job done. If the intent is to change things by and for ideological reasons, however noble looking they may seem at first.. it's all nice in the abstract, but a very real efficiency, given mounds of work to do, amount of people available and the mod past it's golden age of popularity - I don't see it there.
Well Jinx you are right on spot what I was suggesting.
But you also said; but even those 2 requirements fail. mostly the 2nd one - you just won t get the entire team to show up at a scheduled time - and what will you do when someone fails to show up repeatedly ..... kick him? - and then what...
We are not here in some race and people are doing coding for free...why would we kick them? I have high opinion of them too but it looks to me that we have here some puzle that everyone should solve together not one by one.
What I had in minde was like:
Person like Jack who would set priority what to do first and in general what to do to have more fun playing this nice game.
Ofcourse it would be discussion with all developers if it is possible to implement some things or not but still it have to be person with vision.
For example developers are now implementing many things, I do not say if they are good or bad, but for me it would be great if we get rid of some bugs first, like tractor beem, trade lane...for me that would be priority. I think all players here would like to see that to be fixed.
And for this:
i think a general idea on how to get your "pumpkin coloured name tag" is to simply contact one of the other yellowish names on the forum, tell them that you want to assist - and get into the channels.
First he is not my pumpkin.
Second I'm not racist soo if he is colored or not I don't care.
Third and most important, he have to be respected from all developers.
Lords will rule their land as they see fit, and the serfs shall merely beg.
pumpkin coloured named tag = thats what the colour is of the official dev name tags on the forum - its yellowish / orange
like - look at treewyrms forum name: it is pumpkin coloured - now look at yours, it is pale blue - thats why he is an official developer and you are an official member.
(01-27-2014, 01:16 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: Does Jack even want to be a dev? Maybe y'all should let him decide instead of making the decision for him.
I didn't ask him...
It does not have to be him...but it have to be someone that is respected in this community.
But I would like if he is the one..
Ofcourse if he have time and will to do it.
Lords will rule their land as they see fit, and the serfs shall merely beg.
I don't know does Jack want to be developer, but he made a good point about the scanners, in a constructive manner. If all players complaining about recent changes did it the way he did, instead of going "lol devs suck", I guess we wouldn't have all that drama, and developers would react far more positively.
@ Murcielago
No, it's about dev-related thing, it's in the right place. No need to be sarcastic about mods' job, even if there's load of negative emotion towards one of them.
(01-27-2014, 01:55 PM)Pavel Wrote: I don't know does Jack want to be developer, but he made a good point about the scanners, in a constructive manner. If all players complaining about recent changes did it the way he did, instead of going "lol devs suck", I guess we wouldn't have all that drama, and developers would react far more positively.
@ Murcielago
No, it's about dev-related thing, it's in the right place. No need to be sarcastic about mods' job, even if there's load of negative emotion towards one of them.
Am not sarcastic, I just never put thread on right place, I guess I was just lucky this time. Yupii
As for Jack, indeed he knows to put on "paper" things much better than majority of us here.
And it is not about scanners...it is to make complet picture from parts that we have now.
Lords will rule their land as they see fit, and the serfs shall merely beg.
It doesn't take a dev to give out good criticism and suggestions. It takes to be a reasonable person.
And I assure you that if all discussions would be made in the manner Jack had his, much more community input would be gathered into the game.
At any rate, the current way the community treats the development team has caused more than just 1 dev to stop acting as one. Which is sad, a large portion of those people were actually skilled ones that contributed to the mod.
(01-27-2014, 02:18 PM)Pancakes Wrote: I can tell you a little secret.
It doesn't take a dev to give out good criticism and suggestions. It takes to be a reasonable person.
And I assure you that if all discussions would be made in the manner Jack had his, much more community input would be gathered into the game.
At any rate, the current way the community treats the development team has caused more than just 1 dev to stop acting as one. Which is sad, a large portion of those people were actually skilled ones that contributed to the mod.
Am sad to hear that competent people had stop working here.
One other hand if you don't do something good you have to accept some critic too.
We have here community that can rip your meat from you if you let them, but this is one of reasons why we need someone like Jack. He can almost always back up his words with some good explanation.
Lords will rule their land as they see fit, and the serfs shall merely beg.
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