' Wrote:Another direction you can go with this is specialized mining ships that are able to process ore into the final version.
Not that anyone would want to do that: The ores are more valuable then the finalized product.
As for the manufacturing ships: The unlawfuls have the slave liner which could be used for this. Lawfuls: Hegemon for ore processing, maybe even the Barge.
My suggestion is:
Low cost resource A + Lower cost resource B (optionally, + lower cost resource C etc) -> Higher cost product D.
For instance:
Unlawfuls could use Nuclear Devices combined with Basic Alloys to create Black Market Munitions at a rate of 1 nuke + 4 basic alloy = 5 munitions.
Lawfuls could use Basic Alloy, combine with Boron to produce Super Alloy.
Lawfuls could use Hydrocarbons (or oil?), expend Deuterium or H fuel, to create Polymers.
Lawfuls could combine Polymers with Super Alloy to create hull panels.
This way you could set up a complete production chain to high value items such as hull panels, engine components, optronics... I remember a similar system from a Neverwinter Nights roleplaying world I used to be a part of, it was very fun to use.
Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.
Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.
' Wrote:yeah it'll probably happen; been thinking about it for a couple of years now...
Woooooooooooo!
Now that's what I wanna hear :-)
I will think about some of the commodity chains today and post them on here.
If anyone has any ideas, please post them!
And about Ore-to-Final. It would make sense for one, say, Gold Ore, to produce 10 or 20 units of processed and finalized "Gold", since the Gold sells for less, and you would naturally get alot of gold out of a giant rock of gold ore. on the OORP side, this allows for Miners to shift their ore into a M.V. so they aren't forced to transport it to NY or Munich but now would have more options on where to sell their goods, without changing the Ore or it's sell points/prices.
I'm under the impression that because you guys don't want to program in new commodities, it would be much much easier to use MOX as the catalyst item for a manufacturing vessel. It's perishable and I think that's helpful for two reasons.
First, because you can't just pick up a stockpile of catalyst and have an unlimited supply, so that organization is required to balance the advantages, and it's more in RP for a manufacturing facility of any kind to be "using resources" even while idling and not manufacturing. This just makes sense to me.
And and second, because in the MOX wiki description it states: "...MOX is the primary fuel for the nuclear reactors used aboard large spacecraft and the 'monstrous blast furnaces of --manufacturing platforms--.'"
I took the liberty of coming up with some chain-tem groupings. Feel free to chime in on anything that makes more sense than what I've suggested! (note: I am avoiding specific numbers of any particular item or outcome-items for the balance issues of those choices to be determined later.)
Ore Smelting Example:
1) "X" Ore + Mining Machinery + Water + Oxygen + MOX (Catalyst) = "X-units" Final Item
High Temperature Alloys Example:
2) Cobalt + Niobium + Oxygen + MOX (Catalyst) = FI
Superconductors:
3) Copper + Niobium + Oxygen + MOX (Catalyst)
Super Alloys:
4) Basic Alloys + Beryllium + Oxygen + MOX (Catalyst) = FI
Ship Hull Panelts:
5) Super Alloy + Boron + Basic Alloys + MOX (Catalyst) = FI
Engine Components:
6) High Temperature Alloys + Super Conductors + Platinium + MOX (Catalyst) = FI
Synth Paste/Food Rations
7) Fertilizer + Water + Oxygen + MOX (Catalyst) = FI
Luxury Consumer Goods:
8) Consumer Goods + Polymers + Optronics + MOX (Catalyst) = FI
H-Fuel (not sure what to add to this one):
9) Deuterium + Helium + ?? + MOX (Catalyst) = FI
TL/JG Parts:
10) Platinium + Superconductors + Super Alloys + MOX (Catalyst) = FI
(abit of a gruesome thought, but will give anti-slavers something to hate)
Human Organs:
11) Slaves + Pharmecuticals + Neon + MOX (Catalyst) = FI
Military Vehicles:
12) Light Arms + Basic Alloys + Super Alloy + MOX (Catalyst) = FI
Well there's a few thoughts!
One question I had for you guys is how, in-game, will you actually initiate the manufacturing process, once it's in your (manufacturing vessel) cargo hold, in the presence of a catalyst item? Would it automatically change into the "manufactured" item and be placed in your hold if all necessary items are available? How will this work?
First of, I don't think the word "catalyst" is the right idea for your description: from my view it looks as that the more proper term would be "fuel" for the manufacturing process.
But yeah... MOX would be a fine source of completing the manufacturing process.
As for initiating the manufacturing process, a server-command like /manufacturegoods would do.
It'd just be as simple as gathering the goods on one ship, then type in /manufacturegoods, and the ingredients would be consumed, the final product then replaces them. But in order to keep it in realistic sense, only select types of transportsners can do this command, and maybe on only specific types of final goods for each ship (ex: only mining ships are able to turn ore into their refined state), or that there'd be a new slot-module on transportsners to be able to manufacture (ex: Processing Facility Mk's, perhaps?)
Also... I don't think that food-based products can be "manufactured", per se (ex: manufacturing Synth Paste).
' Wrote:First of, I don't think the word "catalyst" is the right idea for your description: from my view it looks as that the more proper term would be "fuel" for the manufacturing process.
But yeah... MOX would be a fine source of completing the manufacturing process.
As for initiating the manufacturing process, a server-command like /manufacturegoods would do.
It'd just be as simple as gathering the goods on one ship, then type in /manufacturegoods, and the ingredients would be consumed, the final product then replaces them. But in order to keep it in realistic sense, only select types of transportsners can do this command, and maybe on only specific types of final goods for each ship (ex: only mining ships are able to turn ore into their refined state), or that there'd be a new slot-module on transportsners to be able to manufacture (ex: Processing Facility Mk's, perhaps?)
Also... I don't think that food-based products can be "manufactured", per se (ex: manufacturing Synth Paste).
I don't think mining ships could be their own smelters. I just imagined like one or two new ships that would be lightly armed and having the 'manufacturing modules' as according to whatever they manufacture. Do you think that mining ships should be capable of this or that it should require a different/new ship? Something that looked like an industrial platform would be cool. Would each ship, regardless of origin, have a limit on how many manufacturing modules could be placed on it? Perhaps only one? Or two?
Oh, and if you read my previous post, the Food product manufacturing would be more like a bio-dome (a ship with a bio dome ON it would be awesome).
And what I meant by 'catalyst' was that you would require a certain number (according to the specific numbers of each formula) of MOX to use this (hypothetical) /manufacture command and MOX seemed like a sensible choice. You couldn't manufacture without MOX (example) or something like it.
Would a new ship(s) need to be created? If any? Because it wouldn't make alot of sense for your average cargo transport ship to be able to manufacture goods. And I, personally, believe that whatever ship/platform is used for this should be seperate from miners/transports, if only (but not -just-), to prevent serious powertrading abuse issues. The idea is to encourage group effort, and it's not really doing that if you can mine Ore and turn it into finished product right on the ship. This doesn't make alot of sense OORP or IN RP. Most mining ships would not be equipped with the blast furnances required to melt say, platinium or gold, as well as having potential cargo issues. (Not enough space).
The only existing ship (at least that I can think of) that would fill the requirements would be the Barge. But this is given only by admin and the cost is prohibitive. But it would make sense that any existing Barges would have this capacity, or that the Barge would be upgraded with this capacity.
Although it would make sense for say the Junker Salvager to be able to turn scrap metal into basic alloy.
the ship(s) I envision would have very large cargo holds to hold both the pre-requisites and the finished products. They would require protection, too, since I don't know of alot of factories in real life where the guards carry automatic weapons. Not completely defenseless mind you, but in all practical terms, under-defended.
I am really eager to hear more from the community and specifically from Cannon about what he had in mind for this, since he's obviously already given it some thought. Because I really believe this would create a more realistic and dynamic economic environment.
Trading at present can be summed up pretty much as "buy here, sell there", and largely this would not affect that, but now you can "buy here" and "bring to be manufactured" and then sell the manufactured goods somewhere. Adding a "human" link in the trade-chain.
Because as it is now, if you RP a 'cargo purchase', for whatever reason, you are ultimately paying for something you don't actually need in most cases (meaning: wasting hard-earned credits). with the advent of these manufacturing vessels/ platforms, player characters would actually be able to RP cargo purchases of say a shipment of Basic Alloys, and then actually make money back for the purchase by selling the trader you bought them for some high-end commodity that the trader could purchase from you. Depending upon your location (and greed, I suppose) you could sell these items very cheap or make substantial profit. This would a more 'market-based' approach to in-game economics. You could only sell your products for as much as the market will bear.
An example of this is the transport ships that ship say, Gold Ore, for miners in Dublin, purchasing Gold Ore for 5000 units a piece or something and selling it for the Miners. <--- This makes sense in-RP because Miners would spend most of their time mining, not trading goods. Anyway, if people couldn't make money (the traders) buying this Gold Ore in dublin, they wouldn't buy it.