Well, the whole point of this change had to be ideological which is why people are so miffed. It's been proven over and over that the government is going to lose money on this (though they claim this is done for financial reasons), while students from working class families will be put off from going to uni by a prospect of a debt reaching some.. what, 40,000-50,000 pounds at the end of their 4th year? You could buy three cars for that, easily. This is just university tuition mind you, nevermind the cost of supporting yourself in a time when there is hardly an unskilled part time job to come by.
There's been a proposal laying on the table to instead tax the biggest corporations that are partnered with some of the best universities in the UK, get practically an exclusive pick of their best graduates and as such get the most benefit from graduates. A tax of some 4% I think it was on those few corporations would basically mean tuition fees are no longer needed. Instead we get this frankly ridiculous bill railroaded through the parliament, and it would be one thing if the tuition fees increase would actually make the quality of education better. But no, the education grant being cut down will make it worse by forcing universities to cut staff anyway, so we're actually going to pay more for a worse quality of education. Science students are going to notice this, and arts and humanities students have already noticed this on their own skin. Most art courses and some humanities courses are being cut all over the UK for next year already.
Where this government thinks it will go with either half the student loans defaulting in 10-15 years time or the UK having a sharp drop in graduates despite having a knowledge economy is anybody's guess. Other than making Oxbridge more elitist than it already is that is.
Its stupid. 9000 P... Too much to pay for a student. a STUDENT. How the f. they expect him/her to pay? Well, long live capitalism and rich people and their schools.
9000 pounds per year?? Man, thats way too much....I think the highest price per year in my country is around 2000-2500 euros, and its pretty much same price in whole Balkan region.
Note to youngest readers: Politicians always lie and they will do everything to get re-elected, so dont get surprised when they 'forget' campaign promises! :cool:
Well, obviously it's "cool" in many countries now. Especially the Pre-election "Universities for everyone with a good brain!" and "Prices will be tripled, take a loan or don't go to university" after election.
I mean... ok, but trying to fix country finances by that isn't the way.
I buy things I don't want to make an impression on people I don't like.
' Wrote:Well for Europe it's very expensive, most of Europe still has none or negligible fees at Universities. It's not that universities in Europe don't need/use the money, but they are supposed to get it trough much higher taxes that we pay. Therefore it's hard to compare that to US directly.
Well, let me compare tuition fees. The amount I pay is roughly 1.7x that of a British school. Whether or not the school can operate with that money is not what I'm talking about, the amount that I pay to go to school is much higher than what the fuss is about. Even after the academic scholarship I earned ($64,000 over four years), I'm still paying $8000 or about 5056.57 P to learn. After talking to a few of my friends who have done research about studying abroad in Britain, I learned that that's somewhere above 1700 P higher than an average British school. Regardless of whether or not a university gets the money to operate from elsewhere, students and parents alike should not be complaining about this. That tuition is actually pretty low...
' Wrote:That's why US parents gather money/get huge loans for their kids to go to the uni, right? Well, European ones mostly don't, even though it varies from country to country.
To just expect parents and families (since students hardly earn as much to pay these kinds of tuition fees and other costs) to adapt so much in so little time is... Well, a big slap in the face for many many many people.
To note, parents don't usually get huge loans, kids do. A good friend of mine who is graduating in two years will have about $66,000 hanging over her head when everything is said and done and she received a very generous scholarship (higher than mine).
And what is stopping European parents from gathering money? Why wouldn't they before this change? It's a case of poor money management regardless of whether the university would cost 3300 P or 9000 P. In doing this, parents are making the assumption that they and their children can work indefinitely. With an average income of 16.7k P (according to this), skimming 2k off of your salary per year (which is 167 P per month, not really all that much, since you have 1.39k P disposable income per month on an average salary), you can ensure that your average, working class child can go to the guaranteed most expensive school in Britain. This is, of course, assuming you start from year 0 of your child's life saving for school and not even taking into account income from interest for having your money in a bank or in stocks. Really, it's not very hard to save money if you are working. If stupid Americans can do it, so can the British.
And really, one has to think, is university education really necessary education? Not really, no. No one is entitled to attend a university, and in providing for a greater populace to attend a university, doesn't that lessen the value of a degree? I really agree with Slainte when I walk around the Community Colleges here in the US. I mostly see people who are putting off reality for two or three years before they simply enter the workforce anyway. When those people miraculously graduate with an associate's degree in finance or whatever, really that just increases the number of people in the workforce with degrees but no willingness to work. If someone doesn't have the constitution or willpower to actually pay and work for a university education, quite frankly he doesn't deserve one.
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
' Wrote:Interesting. Most top universities in India charge the same amount(~9000 Pounds) if converted into pounds. Yes I've checked for a few.
I'd like to see people from other countries chipping in with their figures.
My first (and only for reasons that don't matter now) year at university costed ~780 Eur (not including food/housing due to the fact I lived near it and could go walking daily). It was a public university (Universidad de Cantabria). I doubt there are any public universities costing more than 2000'¬/year, but there are private one charging much, much, much more than that. Per subject taken.
Also, my income is ~9200 Eur/year. What do I have to do to move to one of the countries you mention with the minimum salary being 2-3 times higher than that?
' Wrote:Well, let me compare tuition fees. The amount I pay is roughly 1.7x that of a British school. Whether or not the school can operate with that money is not what I'm talking about, the amount that I pay to go to school is much higher than what the fuss is about. Even after the academic scholarship I earned ($64,000 over four years), I'm still paying $8000 or about 5056.57 P to learn. After talking to a few of my friends who have done research about studying abroad in Britain, I learned that that's somewhere above 1700 P higher than an average British school. Regardless of whether or not a university gets the money to operate from elsewhere, students and parents alike should not be complaining about this. That tuition is actually pretty low...
To note, parents don't usually get huge loans, kids do. A good friend of mine who is graduating in two years will have about $66,000 hanging over her head when everything is said and done and she received a very generous scholarship (higher than mine).
That's not how economics works my friend :P
You might pay 1.7 times the British person for tuition, but the British person pays 1.7 times what you do in taxes, a part of which is supposed to cover that very same tuition. In the end you're both paying similar amounts - well, you were, except now the Brit pays near-American sums for tuition PLUS higher taxes.
By the way, just because students in the US drop 50 grand a year on college doesn't make it 'normal'. I would be especially worried about your friend there. If she's seriously planning to be 66k in debt she has just screwed herself over for the next ten years of her life, at best. Unless she is attending an Ivy League and is going into banking (then she's golden!).