A look back at the Junker and Hogosha IDs.

[Syrus]

I strongly oppose "lawful piracy".
If you wish to sell off the ore you just received by blowing up that trader one lane away from the next high-paying sellpoint after you made an insane demand which'd cause the trader to lose more than he makes you better get someone else to tractor it. We had this "one-lane-before-sellpoint-piracy" happening often enough. All the time at Naritan and during the H3 being well sold on SSR, we had it there as well...

"I'm afk trading and I'm so angry"

"I want easy piracy because I can't work with other people"

How about you stop your trolling and contribute something useful. This isn't flood.

I just pointed out the reasons for why it had been changed.
Piracy where the "pirate" can just sit in front of the sellpoint, telling everyone how he's a totally law-abiding citizen, and then without any problems sell the pirated stuff themselves after blowing the trader up should not be allowed. It will only cause a lot of problems again. Overall piracy where the pirate could sell the stuff himself on the high-paying sellpoint was seen as bad, and I agree. It doesn't promote teamwork, like the old "Gold Ore route into Liberty"-piracy: people there were stopped at the Cali-NY gate and if they didn't pay they'd be shot and their ore was taken to Detroit by 3rd party-Junkers or Freelancers- instead of the pirates themselves.

You haven't seen what some people did when Hogosha's could pirate in house space. And when it starts to piss people off the server, then it's wrong. They went WAY to far back then and you can thank those people for ruining a very good RP option. Most old players and snub-pvpers forget or don't know what a pita it can be to be a trader, and they forget how traders and miners brought the most activity (since it promotes piracy, which then makes other people go after the pirates and so on).

Also, I never afk trade. That's just not possible to do. If you had traded even a bit you'd know that.
But hey, keep pissing people off with 20-40 mio piracy for a load of ore in front of the sellpoints or with outright "drop all cargo"-demands (which was what the Hogs did all the time btw, since you obviously have no idea) or with 5 mio for a load of stuff that isn't even worth that much when sold...There's no piracy limit, traders are always put as paper-thin money-cows and you people still think it's a good idea to allow not-really-unlawfuls to pirate in house...probably even staging themselves without any problem from the next lawful base around the corner (so that our lovely metagamers can log a pirate "law-abiding citizen" on the next base if they missed you on the other).



Besides that, I'm against Lawfuls being able to shoot Quasi-Lawfuls without sufficient reasons in house space. Innocent till proven otherwise.

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[Curios]

I strongly oppose "lawful piracy".
If you wish to sell off the ore you just received by blowing up that trader one lane away from the next high-paying sellpoint after you made an insane demand which'd cause the trader to lose more than he makes you better get someone else to tractor it. We had this "one-lane-before-sellpoint-piracy" happening often enough. All the time at Naritan and during the H3 being well sold on SSR, we had it there as well...

"I'm afk trading and I'm so angry"

"I want easy piracy because I can't work with other people"

How about you stop your trolling and contribute something useful. This isn't flood.

I just pointed out the reasons for why it had been changed.
Piracy where the "pirate" can just sit in front of the sellpoint, telling everyone how he's a totally law-abiding citizen, and then without any problems sell the pirated stuff themselves after blowing the trader up should not be allowed. It will only cause a lot of problems again. Overall piracy where the pirate could sell the stuff himself on the high-paying sellpoint was seen as bad, and I agree. It doesn't promote teamwork, like the old "Gold Ore route into Liberty"-piracy: people there were stopped at the Cali-NY gate and if they didn't pay they'd be shot and their ore was taken to Detroit by 3rd party-Junkers or Freelancers- instead of the pirates themselves.

You haven't seen what some people did when Hogosha's could pirate in house space. And when it starts to piss people off the server, then it's wrong. They went WAY to far back then and you can thank those people for ruining a very good RP option. Most old players and snub-pvpers forget or don't know what a pita it can be to be a trader, and they forget how traders and miners brought the most activity (since it promotes piracy, which then makes other people go after the pirates and so on).

Also, I never afk trade. That's just not possible to do. If you had traded even a bit you'd know that.
But hey, keep pissing people off with 20-40 mio piracy for a load of ore in front of the sellpoints or with outright "drop all cargo"-demands (which was what the Hogs did all the time btw, since you obviously have no idea) or with 5 mio for a load of stuff that isn't even worth that much when sold...There's no piracy limit, traders are always put as paper-thin money-cows and you people still think it's a good idea to allow not-really-unlawfuls to pirate in house...probably even staging themselves without any problem from the next lawful base around the corner (so that our lovely metagamers can log a pirate "law-abiding citizen" on the next base if they missed you on the other).



Besides that, I'm against Lawfuls being able to shoot Quasi-Lawfuls without sufficient reasons in house space. Innocent till proven otherwise.

"I want easy piracy" - lol, I have said in some other post that I'm not playing Hogosha so I have no personal interest in this.

"I can't work with other people" - logic for this phrase? It's traders who don't want to, well, let's drop the "hire escort" thingy, it's getting oldy and no one still care - simply look ahead his nose? There is only 1 good spot for pirate, or was, it's near the Honshu gates or in the middle of the lane. So if you see the online list, know where the pirates might wait for you and then, still, get in trouble by simply going hoping it will be okay then it's totally your fault.

Hogosha is space Yakuza and you must complain to KNF\KSP\KPT to deal with them, hire escorts, post bounties instead of crying to admins on how it's unfair that you was flying paying half-arsed attention to what is going on and got caught.

If you feel like the demands are unfair then visit the sanction section and post it there so admins can think about how it's ok or notok. And it's without talking about the fact it was your own choice to trade the high value cargo instead of trading with more cheap goods. So if you make that choice it's logical for you to be vigilant constantly, to hire escorts, to do whatever to protect own investment (we usually call it "play the game") instead of blindly rushing down straight to the sell point from the mining spot double time without paying any attention to what you're doing. That's pro trading. We usually call it "power trading". So I don't understand the simple fact - why the whole ID of the whole faction must suffer simply because power traders are feeling uncomfortable about that.

P.S. And about that bla bla stuff about "go try trading yourself" horse crap -> I was in Kishiro official faction back at those "terrible hogosha pirating every here and there" times and I was mining stuff and selling in Kusari back in "terrible hogosha pirating every here and there" times and I know it's not a problem if you have at least some brain cells still functioning.

P.P.S. I remember those Military Vehicles high risk routes with huge chance of being killed, those were times... Traders nowaday don't even want to accept the challenge and simply want to peacefully power trade as much cash as possible with zero risk. Boring and disgusting.

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[Vulkhard Muller]

P.P.S. I remember those Military Vehicles high risk routes with huge chance of being killed, those were times... Traders nowaday don't even want to accept the challenge and simply want to peacefully power trade as much cash as possible with zero risk. Boring and disgusting.

My point exactly So what if a Hogosha can pirate you? or a Junker can pirate you? if you Rp maybe I won’t demand cargo and just credits. But I do not know why but I get really smug when I pop someone I know is a power trader. " aww you missed a chance at 100 mil cause I asked for 10 for your ore? so sad" Here is an idea instead of the traders complaining how about they actually Rp with pirates? I know a very well know faction who main thing is “See a pirate? Report it in Skype Dock log, log fighter/bomber/gb kill it and continue trading" or other ones who are " Always run Cap 4 or more on your transport it will give you a chance against pirates! Remember cap 4 and guns!" Know what I run on my Stork? Class 6 freighter shield and No guns No armor and people think Im crazy Im not crazy I Rp with the pirate or I pay them not shoot or planet/sun dive or jettison/shoot my cargo.

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Sent me (Nemesis/Junker Congress a Comm? haven't received a reply in a week or more? Sorry! Post here and I'll get back to you asap!

[Syrus]

"I can't work with other people" - logic for this phrase? It's traders who don't want to, well, let's drop the "hire escort" thingy, it's getting oldy and no one still care - simply look ahead his nose? There is only 1 good spot for pirate, or was, it's near the Honshu gates or in the middle of the lane. So if you see the online list, know where the pirates might wait for you and then, still, get in trouble by simply going hoping it will be okay then it's totally your fault.

Yep, sure, let me go avoid every possible pirate.
Thing is, that's not even possible with Honshu-NT. The people that abused the Hog ID so hard that it got changed camped both the JG and JH. Were it normal pirates, a lawful force could've easily come and shot them up, but them being Hogosha meant any lawful shooting them, being the "totally law-abiding citizens", without a good reason meant they'd just go run to them forums and complain to higher ups about being shot up "for no reason".

Hogosha is space Yakuza and you must complain to KNF\KSP\KPT to deal with them, hire escorts, post bounties instead of crying to admins on how it's unfair that you was flying paying half-arsed attention to what is going on and got caught.

No-one directly cried to the admins, the admins themselves saw the flaw due to the sanction spam (from both sides btw). We never went to the admins directly and whined about it, there may have been posts on the forum though.

If you feel like the demands are unfair then visit the sanction section and post it there so admins can think about how it's ok or notok.

Not once had any complain of an insane demand got through as a sanction. "Drop all cargo" and "40 mio!" against ore carriers seemed to be "alright" back then. And you know that most indies won't bother writing up a sanction on that, because "there is no actual rule against it". There's no 0.0 rule or such to write a report about it.

And it's without talking about the fact it was your own choice to trade the high value cargo instead of trading with more cheap goods.

Oh no, I tried to generate acitivity by mining...!
What's the difference between being pirate for 110% of the worth or 100% of the cargo when you carry ore and when you carry non-high priced cargo?
Hell, you know, if the damn pirate couldn't dock on the base right behind him after making you lose all your cargo, it'd not be a problem. But - he - CAN. And he can just go "I'm absolutly lawful!" afterwards or while waiting there! That is the reason why it can't be allowed.

So if you make that choice it's logical for you to be vigilant constantly, to hire escorts, to do whatever to protect own investment (we usually call it "play the game") instead of blindly rushing down straight to the sell point from the mining spot double time without paying any attention to what you're doing.

I don't mind the occasional - reasonable - pirate here. But I, and many other's, who most often do not visit the forums, since they are newer players, and who will just leave if they get bored of getting shot down all the time on transports because of insane demands, want to make a damn profit doing the boring "dock lane, dock JG, dock lane, dock lane, dock lane, dock JG, dock lane, dock lane, dock lane, dock JG, dock lane, dock lane, dock lane, dock base, sell goods, buy goods, undock, dock lane...etc.". The problem is that people lost common sense and that some people are around who's only target is to ruin (certain) other (tagged) people's fun as hard as they can. You - as I have said before - have NOT experienced the god damn (indi) Hogosha rapes that I - or we - have encountered. The only thing that we could most oftenly do was just log off. And you speak of FR5ing? They'd just remake new characters, move the CAU over, done. Think that bothered them?

Thank them for the ID change. Don't blame the people that were hit by them.
Thank dear Redbull and consorts. Thank those DPC lovers, who'd metagame miners as hard as possible: look who's in the fields, either pirate them and/or scout their transports with lawful ships along the way and then log the pirates shortly before the sellpoint to then sell it themselves.
Pirates have gotten their own sellpoints for ore for example for a reason.
FR5s are useless and slow.

That's pro trading. We usually call it "power trading". So I don't understand the simple fact - why the whole ID of the whole faction must suffer simply because power traders are feeling uncomfortable about that.

I'm not even going to comment "this"...

P.S. And about that bla bla stuff about "go try trading yourself" horse crap -> I was in Kishiro official faction back at those "terrible hogosha pirating every here and there" times and I was mining stuff and selling in Kusari back in "terrible hogosha pirating every here and there" times and I know it's not a problem if you have at least some brain cells still functioning.

Kishiro, eh? Should've tried a real mining faction.

P.P.S. I remember those Military Vehicles high risk routes with huge chance of being killed, those were times... Traders nowaday don't even want to accept the challenge and simply want to peacefully power trade as much cash as possible with zero risk. Boring and disgusting.

Won't comment "this" either.



I still support having a BD / GC base around Shikoku and/or New Tokio/Honshu though.

Don't get me wrong, I flew an ore transport in .85 alone all the time, when I ran into pirates: "happens". That was the risk and the risk was the fun.
But then it went too far. Way too far. With people metagaming, people going to borderline rule-breaking, just to screw with others. Then the flaw of the Hogosha "lawful piracy"-ID rule came into affect. Because it was abused heavily. Those people did not care about RP. But they also couldn't get sanctioned. And it seems to be many people's goal lately to just piss others off.


Also, people get your prices right:
Even a full load of 5k of high-priced ore (12k per unit) is only worth 60 mio. And then you have to subtract another 20-30 mio which went to the miner. (...though I still consider up to 10mio piracy demands "alright", compared to some other demands I saw...most people forget that they are not always the only pirate along the line either...)

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