Loans

[Hielor]

Its a point of view, i respect it, but loaning some cash to a new player its a help, even if he know how to play or not.

The individual in question was not a "new player" by any stretch of the imagination.

You said that asking pictures of his ships, and making to sign a form is not a way of making RP... so my question is, there is a better way as a bank to do some RP? Or Sirius dont have a banking sistem?

I did not say it was not a way of "making RP." Sure it is. But if you're going to RP as a banker you need to be a whole lot more careful about it.

Essentially, you gave an unsecured loan to someone with no reputation whatsoever, with no guarantee as to who he was or what he did. What you should've done was:
- Required collateral that is a significant portion of the value of the loan. In Disco, this would probably mean him transferring a ship whose resale value was at least 50-75% of the value of the loan to you for the duration of the loan. "Why would he ask for a loan if he already had a ship worth that much?" Ask banks IRL. It's common knowledge that you can't get a big loan without some kind of collateral. If the loan is for a ship, you should maintain ownership of the vessel until the loan is paid off (in essence, the ship serves as collateral for the loan--just like IRL car loans). Isn't there a way to set a "master code" on a ship so that someone can't change the movecharcode, or something? If not...there should be.
- Required someone else with a good reputation/credit (inRP) to guarantee the loan on behalf of the individual.
- Required some kind of proof of the individual's income earning ability. Timestamped screenshots showing the individual's ability to trade, or timestamped screenshots of mission successful things, or something. Just like IRL--if you don't have a job, you're not going to get a loan.

If you walk into a bank IRL and say "I want a one hundred thousand dollar loan. Here's some pictures of my cars and I'll sign some papers" they'll laugh you out of the building. That's basically what he did to you, and you nodded and smiled and handed over the cash.

I dont know... this was an absolute scam, he borrowed 3 loans knowing that he was going to default to everyone, and that is called malice.
Can we really stand people like that in the comunity? What do you say?

I do not disagree that the evidence we've seen in this case definitely suggests that this was intended as a scam from the beginning. Certainly the fact that the character very clearly still had cash leftover after the screenshots (look at the level) is proof of the fact that the player still had access to the credits afterward and could have paid people back. Moreover, he did not explicitly inform people he was taking loans from that if the character died that was it--and that's unusual on Disco, so it should've been called out.

HOWEVER, nobody should have been giving him loans, at all. Basically you people were handing him money with no evidence whatsoever (inRP) that he was going to pay it back. Certainly you didn't do any kind of researech about the history of the player.

I do not think that the admins should be paying back the loans to the loaners, certainly not in full. The loaners didn't do any kind of due diligence to verify that the loan was a good idea, and admin policy is not to guarantee loans. Having them guarantee (in essence) these very poorly executed loans sets a poor precedent.

I do think that admins should guarantee loans that are properly executed inRP. That is, if you did a little extra paperwork to prove that the person is able to pay the loan back and just didn't, the person is OORPly scamming you and should face OORP punishment. But if you hand someone money with no inRP evidence they'll ever be able to pay it back, without protecting yourself with collateral (as in this case), you're SOL if the guy doesn't pay you back.

[Botowned]

- Required collateral that is a significant portion of the value of the loan. In Disco, this would probably mean him transferring a ship whose resale value was at least 50-75% of the value of the loan to you for the duration of the loan. "Why would he ask for a loan if he already had a ship worth that much?" Ask banks IRL. It's common knowledge that you can't get a big loan without some kind of collateral. If the loan is for a ship, you should maintain ownership of the vessel until the loan is paid off (in essence, the ship serves as collateral for the loan--just like IRL car loans). Isn't there a way to set a "master code" on a ship so that someone can't change the movecharcode, or something? If not...there should be.

repoing would be sanctions up the ass. Like the idea though but would imagine if anything like that was to happen it would have to be oked by the admins and documented as an in game rp event. Kinda like RL I guess need a judges approval to repo

[Hielor]

repoing would be sanctions up the ass. Like the idea though but would imagine if anything like that was to happen it would have to be oked by the admins and documented as an in game rp event. Kinda like RL I guess need a judges approval to repo

Given that the way this would work in Disco would be that the loaner would actually own the ship and have it on a shared account, I don't think there would be too much issue with sanctions involved--admins have stated somewhere (I think) that shared accounts aren't protected in any way. That's why you would need the "master code" on ships, though, to prevent someone from just taking the ship off the account...

[Botowned]

Given that the way this would work in Disco would be that the loaner would actually own the ship and have it on a shared account, I don't think there would be too much issue with sanctions involved--admins have stated somewhere (I think) that shared accounts aren't protected in any way. That's why you would need the "master code" on ships, though, to prevent someone from just taking the ship off the account...

I see...you know I didn't think of that...could work.

[Reverend Del]

Looking at the circumstances surrounding a potential scam, and guaranteeing a loan are two separate things. They can certainly be asked to be reimbursed, but they may well find the answer to such a request to be most disappointing.

---

Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.

[ryoken]

Given that the way this would work in Disco would be that the loaner would actually own the ship and have it on a shared account, I don't think there would be too much issue with sanctions involved--admins have stated somewhere (I think) that shared accounts aren't protected in any way. That's why you would need the "master code" on ships, though, to prevent someone from just taking the ship off the account...

Problem is there is no "master code" on an account. You give me account codes, and if i wanted to i could set up a transfer code,andsend it to a new account. You would suddenly lose that ship. So a loaner having the account codes means nothing. Guy can get the loan,and the transfer the ship to new account 2 minutes later. This is why i think all those lending cash to people they do not know are just asking for it. It is not right, and and scammer should be pounded into paste, but your just opening yourself up to it.
The few times i have given people money, i have considered it just that. Giving the money away. If i get it back cool, but not expecting it.

---

[Hielor]

Problem is there is no "master code" on an account. You give me account codes, and if i wanted to i could set up a transfer code,andsend it to a new account. You would suddenly lose that ship. So a loaner having the account codes means nothing. Guy can get the loan,and the transfer the ship to new account 2 minutes later. This is why i think all those lending cash to people they do not know are just asking for it. It is not right, and and scammer should be pounded into paste, but your just opening yourself up to it.
The few times i have given people money, i have considered it just that. Giving the money away. If i get it back cool, but not expecting it.

Right, this is why I said this would require a master code. That feature *should* exist and probably wouldn't take long...

[purilacroix]

Looking at the circumstances surrounding a potential scam, and guaranteeing a loan are two separate things. They can certainly be asked to be reimbursed, but they may well find the answer to such a request to be most disappointing.

Im fine with that... all i want is a fair treatment to this case, and the recognition of the scam. If i can reimbursed with the cash i loaned i will be really glad, but seriusly im not expecting that. How can that money return to the "bank" in a RP way? Difficult...
So, well, im just expecting justice.

Thanks