I've read through this entire thread. Some of you think it's the admins, some of you think it's the players in general. Intolerance, itchy violation button-pushy fingers....
I'll first address 13cent... You think we're too harsh. I get it. We had a problem months ago with players being crucified over their IDs. Since then, we've changed the way we deal with these guys. We DO talk to them in game. I'm not gonna fire up remote desktop to put a warning notification in someone's hold when I can warn them personally. When it comes to things like wrong ID, they are talked to, warned, whatever. But, i'll give you a little insight; those guys (or at least the ones i've talked to recently) don't speak English and simply ignore me and everyone else they come into contact with. When they do talk, it's in another language, thereby breaking another server rule.
This is a hard enough job as it is but I wouldn't change it for the world. These little rants make it just a little bit harder. Maybe we should just lay down and let you guys have total anarchy on the server. You think the rule lawyering is bad now? What if it were just you vigilantes on the server trying to keep things in line. THAT would be the death of Disco.
I've said it so many times in my other replies to threads like these....the violation reports have dwindled to only a couple a day, if that. Before it was 15 - 20 reports a day. You guys might be seeing it in game, but we're not seeing it on the forums. Look at the sanctions forum as well...the number of sanctions has also dwindled. Yet the server is still growing. Obviously we're doing something right.
I've also said recently that this is a cycle. This has happened a couple of times before in the 1 1/2 years i've been here. People throw their hands up, say screw it and leave. 2 more people fill their place.
Rule quoters will be dealt with just as harshly as those who break the rules. Hell, i'm gonna put the rule quoters in Bastille if that's what it takes.
For those who think the problem is with the players...lead by example. Keep it always IC. Guide these guys, and remember your first days here on this great server. If they annoy you, ignore them! SImple as that. Don't rise to their childish antics and always, always be the bigger person. It's not that hard.
For those who think the problem is with the admins...We try. We're still trying. There have been so many threads recently to change/ammend certain rules. When we do change them, it's still not good enough. When we crack down on players for foul language and harrassment, we still get yelled at. We can't win with you guys (those who think we're the evil, fanged bunnies of Disco). We can't make everyone happy. But if you think we're harsh here, run along to another server, another game, whatever. I think we have some of the best admins around. We all have a good relationship with each other and won't hesitate to tell another that they've messed up (behind closed doors).
You will get things like this no matter where you play. It comes with the territory of online gaming and communities. I, for one, have found a nice little comfortable place in the hallowed halls of Discovery. I'm not leaving, i'll fight tooth and nail for this place and its members. Just sit down, relax, play the game, write a story and let it slide.
Well, I'm going to go back to title of this discussion and work from there. So quote, "What's Happening to Disco?". Well, I can tell you think... Nothings happening, unfortunately all that you see here, is Disco. I've been here for a year and 3 months now, for the past several months Discovery kind of runs on a chain.
1. We'll play and have fun when it seems nothing is happening.
2. Problems will start to come up, but nothing to big.
3. Problems get bigger and everyone starts arguing.
4. Everyone gets pissed off with each other and starts throwing rocks.
5. Something extreamly big will happen resulting in everyone being happy again or people leaving Disco. (And as Cay said, more people join when one leaves)
6. We go back to option number 1 and do it again...
Currently, were somewhere in between 3 and 4. This chain takes months to get from point 1 to 6. It's just how Discovery is really, but in the end it can be worth it. With the RP, the friends you make, the ingame roleplaying stories and fights. In my opinion all of that is worth living through the crap that pops up, kinda the reason why I'm sticking around.
No, there isn't really a way to break the chain. There will always be a new problem coming up (this time it being rules). Ya, we can try, we can all do our best to help bring the server back to how it was. And you know what? We'll probably be successful. But then new players will come in, with their own ideas and opinions, and then chain starts all over again.
Ya, that's what I got to say. Again, Discovery in the end is worth it. Watch and see, you'll pick it up eventually.
For those who diddnt understand my previous post....
People see threats in their lives (modders, rulebreakers) and they look for action to be taken against the causes of the threat. In the case of rule breakers, they are put on trial. Trials nearly always leed to a free and open system seeming inadequate.. laws have to be amended to allow justice to take place.
As a preventative measure, the laws are made more rigid, more explicit, more complicated, in order to make it easier to convict someone who is in the wrong.
But thats not good enough. People look for someone who can make sure the laws are upheld, someone who will make an example of everyone who is deemed to be out of line by that individual, and be utterly merciless. This initially makes them feel good, that anyone who endangers the public will be punished severely... but things ALWAYS get out of hand.
Quote:but again truth be told, if youre looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldnt be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.
Increased rigidity of existing laws, and introduction of new laws to make sure people conform leads to oppression. The man you turned to to make example of those who threaten you, to keep you safe..."Big Brother", "Adam Sutler" (I could quote real-world examples but that would be way out-of-line) is now the man you fear. You fear to be yourself because you're sure that doing so would allow the man to have you made example of.
1. We'll play and have fun when it seems nothing is happening.
2. Problems will start to come up, but nothing to big.
3. Problems get bigger and everyone starts arguing.
4. Everyone gets pissed off with each other and starts throwing rocks.
5. Something extremely big will happen resulting in everyone being happy again or people leaving Disco. (And as Cay said, more people join when one leaves)
6. We go back to option number 1 and do it again...
Currently, were somewhere in between 3 and 4. This chain takes months to get from point 1 to 6.
I have to agree with DBoy on this one. He put it in a short and sweet way, and its almost exactly how it happens, a chain of events forms. Soon, maybe 3 or so weeks we will forget about this thread. Or some administrator will close it because they feel like its gonna hurt them or someone else. But it doesn't matter, a few clans will drop out, 2 more newbies will join. Break the rules, get sanctioned, start a clan, everyone argues about it, massive flame festival, another member gets tired of it and leaves another one joins in and we are back to good old square one again.
What I was saying in my previous post was that, if your in a new players boots and you get sanctioned extremely harshly from no were for a rule you don't think you violated how would you feel. I am saying this because, yes it happened to me once. where their any server administrators around to talk to me about it? Nope. I do see the odd administrator sitting in New York, like Hoodlum or Tony usually sat in tau-31 waiting for someone to speak out of character so he could find someone to sanction, but otherwise I just hear about those admins in Teamspeak talking about how they are getting bombarded with endless questions.
I have nothing more to add. *smacks hammer* :cool:
"Three o'clock is always too late or too early for anything you want to do."
*Hands Caylith the rest of P Funk's bottle of aspirin.* Here, you might need this.:unsure:
Quote:I've read through this entire thread. Some of you think it's the admins, some of you think it's the players in general. Intolerance, itchy violation button-pushy fingers....
Since I posted about having an itchy trigger finger over the report violation button, I should explain that the itch only got out of control the time I caught a DIC member with BAF GB/tag/ID smuggling artifacts to Rochester Base. That was so OORP that I couldn't help it.:$
Quote:I'll first address 13cent... You think we're too harsh. I get it. We had a problem months ago with players being crucified over their IDs. Since then, we've changed the way we deal with these guys. We DO talk to them in game. I'm not gonna fire up remote desktop to put a warning notification in someone's hold when I can warn them personally. When it comes to things like wrong ID, they are talked to, warned, whatever. But, i'll give you a little insight; those guys (or at least the ones i've talked to recently) don't speak English and simply ignore me and everyone else they come into contact with. When they do talk, it's in another language, thereby breaking another server rule.
Non-English speakers might account for most players who ignore me when I tip them off that they need to change their ID. I need to remember that when I get annoyed that I've been ignored.
Quote:This is a hard enough job as it is but I wouldn't change it for the world. These little rants make it just a little bit harder. Maybe we should just lay down and let you guys have total anarchy on the server. You think the rule lawyering is bad now? What if it were just you vigilantes on the server trying to keep things in line. THAT would be the death of Disco.
Although I've never been an Admin, I do have a couple years experience as an SP (Server Police) on a few Freelancer servers. I've tried to make your job a little easier by tipping off players when they're violating server rules, so they are less likely to get a sanctions report.
Quote:I've said it so many times in my other replies to threads like these....the violation reports have dwindled to only a couple a day, if that. Before it was 15 - 20 reports a day. You guys might be seeing it in game, but we're not seeing it on the forums. Look at the sanctions forum as well...the number of sanctions has also dwindled. Yet the server is still growing. Obviously we're doing something right.
I think I've only filed three sanction reports myself, one for swearing (after the violator was warned and continued to swear in system chat), one for wrong ID (after I told him where to get the proper ID, he responded in English and my advice was willfully ignored) and one for an OORP violation (the DIC member who was the only one that I didn't warn beforehand). If I filed a violations report every time that I saw swearing or incorrect ID, I would have filed at least 12-15 violations reports by now. Except for the DIC member, I've only reported blatant, willful violators who ignored my advice.
Quote:I've also said recently that this is a cycle. This has happened a couple of times before in the 1 1/2 years i've been here. People throw their hands up, say screw it and leave. 2 more people fill their place.
I've also seen that sort of cycle in other forums.
Quote:Rule quoters will be dealt with just as harshly as those who break the rules. Hell, i'm gonna put the rule quoters in Bastille if that's what it takes.
Uh, oh!:$
Actually, my printer isn't working right (it won't print black ink), so I don't even have a copy of the rules for reference when I'm playing. Anyway, I've tried to convey the spirit of the rules, rather than quoting them. However, the rules have been quoted to me when they weren't even applicable -- In the case of the Corsair and police-tagged players I mentioned in my earlier post. They even had the unmitigated gall to claim that I was OORP because I landed on Planet Manhattan while I had a Junkers tag (and smuggler ID), ignoring the fact that NPC Junkers dock with Manhattan all the time and a Junker can sometimes be found in the Manhattan Bar.
Quote:For those who think the problem is with the players...lead by example. Keep it always IC. Guide these guys, and remember your first days here on this great server. If they annoy you, ignore them! SImple as that. Don't rise to their childish antics and always, always be the bigger person. It's not that hard.
You're right. I should have asked the Corsair player what the Elders on Crete would say to him getting an escort by a member of the LPI. I would think that they might be likely to conclude that he was a police informant!:unsure:
I also should have asked the police-tagged player what his superiors in the LPI would think about him providing an escort to a Corsair!:nono:
At least that might have gotten a more amusing response from those two!:crazy:
Quote:For those who think the problem is with the admins...We try. We're still trying. There have been so many threads recently to change/ammend certain rules. When we do change them, it's still not good enough. When we crack down on players for foul language and harrassment, we still get yelled at. We can't win with you guys (those who think we're the evil, fanged bunnies of Disco). We can't make everyone happy. But if you think we're harsh here, run along to another server, another game, whatever. I think we have some of the best admins around. We all have a good relationship with each other and won't hesitate to tell another that they've messed up (behind closed doors).
I am so tempted to add "we're the evil, fanged bunnies of Disco" as a Caylith quote in my signature, but you would probably shoot me!:unsure:
Quote:You will get things like this no matter where you play. It comes with the territory of online gaming and communities. I, for one, have found a nice little comfortable place in the hallowed halls of Discovery. I'm not leaving, i'll fight tooth and nail for this place and its members. Just sit down, relax, play the game, write a story and let it slide.
Quote:We can't win with you guys (those who think we're the evil, fanged bunnies of Disco).
Reminds me of that Bunnicula book my sister had. I think its just us players being "5t00p3d l337 508'5", Sorry, "Stupid Leet SOB's". I'm not going to go at an admin here with a gun because I like playing on this server. I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE!
*adding Cay's analogy to sigs*
While being quite funny, your sig was the biggest one i've ever seen so far. No more than 700x250 please. ~utrack http://pastebin.com/SYQXBufs
Aren't we done with this thread yet? I thought this was moved on to version 2, even...?
Caylith! Awesome post. Thanks for such clarity. This made me look at the title of the thread as well, and I saw one thing that I hope wraps this up and lets us move on:
What's Happening to Disco?
1.) Igiss and the Dev team are flourishing with new ideas on a daily basis it seems.
2.) New folks download and fire up the mod daily, and join the Disco server of their choice.
3.) Some of them actually come to Disco RP 24/7, and at that point see that things are a bit different.
4.) Every week appears to see the average number of users on Disco RP 24/7 rising. (could be wrong)
5.) Roleplay becomes standard play as newbs learn from the vets.
6.) Admins take care of the fray, as it should be.
Over all, I'd say Disco is very healthy. And, any signs to the contrary are merely a phase, a passing whim. Tomorrow will see another day where all of this will be the same... and in the end it is simply a matter of choice as to how YOU will FEEL about it. So, HAVE FUN OUT THERE!
I'll be chillin' on Baden Baden if you wish to consult the oracle.
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