Independent Disco players

[Veygaar]

Report report report. Fixes so many things.

---

Veygaar for Admin Moderator 2013!!!

[Echo 7-7]

The reason the ability to FR5 players with the same ID as the official faction no longer exists is that it ended up with the kind of ships/character that antagonise Spire so greatly.

I'll use an example to elaborate. This is by no means a criticism of either faction involved, just a demonstration.
TCG got into fights with Order|. Order| FR5'd TCG. Then, TCG could no longer dock on Order bases, yet they still had Order ID'd, Order ships, with Order guns. Problem?

Therefore, FR5 is not effective and creates a sort of paradox in this situation. Hence, one must resort to a 6.9 sanction, in which the offending player must be punished for not following the ID.

Therefore, the only solution is to file for more 6.9s, or introduce a Faction Right which permits an official faction to kick a player out of the NPC faction entirely, both repping them hostile and removing the faction ID (swapping it for the most appropriate generic ID). However, I highly doubt the Admins would even consider letting official factions have that kind of power, thus allowing players not interested in joining a player faction to be able to join the NPC faction. However, when an "independent" goes rogue, so to speak, an official faction has little power to bring the player back in line because the offenders will often not recognise or acknowledge Faction Right 2. Therefore, the only remaining choice is to file for a violation of 6.9.

When it comes down to it, rule violation reports are the only effective option for stubborn players. It's a terrible shame that the reporting system is slow and frustrating for many since it's difficult to know if your report has been acknowledged and/or processed.

---

There was a sig here, once.

[Snoozzzer]

You said:
and has no intention of ever joining the official hacker faction (Or can, given that she'd have to give up everything to join them

You'€™ve just made a clear and apparent statement that you have no ties to the Hackers but get all the benefits of a Hacker and suffer no penalties from your choices. Not fair.

I'€™m making a clear and apparent statement that I'€™m independent of Rheinalnd. You still have the Lane Hacker ID I'€™m betting. Other than that I know nothing about your Role play. The second I see you I'€™m thinking '€œHacker'€, not an independent. If you are a hacker at heart but will not follow the ID of a hacker, time to get a different ID.

The Lane Hacker ID:

1. Can demand credits or cargo.
2. Can engage pirates, terrorists and lawfuls within Liberty and the Independent Systems bordering Liberty
3. Cannot ally with any military, police, or corporate players.
4. Cannot use any transports with more than 4,300 cargo

I 1; Do demand credits or cargo during some of my interactions with traders. I do not in others, but not the ID does not state I must demand credits or cargo

2; I have engaged pirates and lawfuls in Liberty and the surrounding independent systems. I no longer engage them in say, Bretonia, because the ID prevents me from doing so

3; I have flirted with military, police and corporate players. I have gambled with them. I have taunted them. I have fed them false information. I have never allied with them

4; Yeah, my transport ship has much less cargo space than that.

I honestly don't see where I state I have no ties to the Hackers. I've interacted with the official group, pirated with them, call myself and base my character's story and lore on being a Lane Hacker, but she will never join the official lane hacker faction. I fly a Lane Hacker gunship. I get ganked for having a Lane Hacker ID (which I still do, and will never change), I suffer the goddamn consequences black and white roleplaying has imposed on my character for having that ID.

Why am I less than the officials? Why should I give up what I have worked years for? Why are you saying that my Alison the Hacker is not in fact, a Lane Hacker?

---

[Aingar]

Snoozzer and Spire, I guess this one is a misunderstanding, when snoozzer stated "and has no intention of ever joining the official hacker faction" He meant "official faction", "not NPC faction", therefore all arguements are invalid.

---

[Adam_Spire]

The Lane Hacker ID:

1. Can demand credits or cargo.
2. Can engage pirates, terrorists and lawfuls within Liberty and the Independent Systems bordering Liberty
3. Cannot ally with any military, police, or corporate players.
4. Cannot use any transports with more than 4,300 cargo

I 1; Do demand credits or cargo during some of my interactions with traders. I do not in others, but not the ID does not state I must demand credits or cargo

2; I have engaged pirates and lawfuls in Liberty and the surrounding independent systems. I no longer engage them in say, Bretonia, because the ID prevents me from doing so

3; I have flirted with military, police and corporate players. I have gambled with them. I have taunted them. I have fed them false information. I have never allied with them

4; Yeah, my transport ship has much less cargo space than that.

I honestly don't see where I state I have no ties to the Hackers. I've interacted with the official group, pirated with them, call myself and base my character's story and lore on being a Lane Hacker, but she will never join the official lane hacker faction. I fly a Lane Hacker gunship. I get ganked for having a Lane Hacker ID (which I still do, and will never change), I suffer the goddamn consequences black and white roleplaying has imposed on my character for having that ID.

Why am I less than the officials? Why should I give up what I have worked years for? Why are you saying that my Alison the Hacker is not in fact, a Lane Hacker?

Pirate ID:
Pilot carrying this ID is a Freelancer Pirate, who:

1. Cannot fulfill bounty contracts.
2: Can trade and escort traders and smugglers, to unlawful bases only.
3. Can demand cargo and credits from lawful and unlawful ships, and attack them if they do not comply.
4. May be engaged by lawful factions at will
5. Cannot use any transports with more than 3,500 cargo

Hacker ID:
Pilot carrying this ID is a member of the Lane Hackers who:

1. Can demand credits or cargo.
2. Can engage pirates, terrorists and lawfuls within Liberty and the Independent Systems bordering Liberty
3. Cannot ally with any military, police, or corporate players.
4. Cannot use any transports with more than 4,300 cargo

Your point 4 should allow you to use your transport since you said your ship has much less cargo.

Your point 3 seems right on par with pirate ID point 4 because by default, a pirate avoids police, military and does everything they can to make their lives harder.

Your point 2 - Ive seen pirates attack pirates, nothing stopping them from doing just that. Having a pirate ID or LH ID lets you do it.

Your point 1 - Putting words in my mouth wont help. Even a nomad doesnt -have- to kill anyone on sight, the same way pirates dont pirate everyone they see. Like your point, pirates are selective in who they pirate. So again, no difference.

So for your --independent-- role play, a pirate ID will do you just fine. Why wont you take it? You dont want the nerf. You dont want to take the nerf. You -dont- want to take the nerf. Your hacker friends know you so they wont fire on you even with a pirate ID because the 1st thing they see is your name, then your ship, THEN your ID. Tons of time to remind your hacker friends who you are. Because of your established RP, they wont fire on you because you have a pirate ID.

The issue of you getting ganked or the hate/anger/rage that flows to you because you are a hacker is superfluous at best. Anyone can get ganked. Anyone can be hated. And everyone suffers at some point from the ID they choose.

You're less than the official Lane Hacker because if I contact the Lane hackers on the communication channel they will say "She is an independent and we have no control of her. Sorry." Again and again I say, All the perks of the faction and none of the penalties of being an independent.

You are avoiding the tech Nerf. Period. Your Roleplay is in no way affected if you choose a Pirate ID.

Again, watch your language.

---

Sometimes, when all you want is to gain your freedom, you must be willing to risk it all.

[Ayatolah]

actualice yourself:)that's not longer the pirate ID

---

[Adam_Spire]

Thank you! You only helped to prove my point all the more.

They seemed to cut off the Gunboat part of the info card. Not the issue though.

---

Sometimes, when all you want is to gain your freedom, you must be willing to risk it all.

[Ayatolah]

that proves YOUR POINT of view of the game, but doens't mean your point of view is valid for everyone.... if you don't like to see indies, hold breath because you'll not be able to make them bow at your opinion, in fact, you'll be trolled again and again and again and again and again.... and each time harder.... an indi using the ID of X faction will have the same limitations of X faction such as ZOI and else

---

[Veygaar]

I think people are missing Spire's point.

People are using, lets say, a Hessian ID to get their tech with no nerf, while acting nothing like "Hessians" in the process. That is all.

Solution? Sanction for 6.9

---

Veygaar for Admin Moderator 2013!!!

[gafwmn]

Lets face it.People will do what they want,cause its all about the pvp.And none of these people will submit to a tech nerf,cause that will decrease their chances of the coveted blue trophy. Its all about the ego,nothing more,nothing less.

That is where the issue lies.

The only way to combat it would be to clone 25 Hoodlums,give them a server police badge,and a really big stick,er,hammer.

---