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I fly a Zoner trader and not once have I thrown out "you can't tax me" or used claims of neutrality. I have paid a good deal of taxes thank you very much.....and much of that in Liberty space to Outcasts and Corsairs. That's why I find it amusing that Liberty authorities sometimes view us as a problem.
I also have a Zoner gunboat. Simply put, I use it for Freeport security and to make an occasional run into the Omicrons for some Cambridge research projects.
People say Zoners are weak. With that I would disagree. The Zoner comes from all walks of life. Some were miners, some former military or police or even those with a criminal past who want to get away from that life. I've no doubt that a good many Zoners can fight quite well and will if pressed. Not to mention, Zoners choose the hard life in uncontrolled space which is a daunting task in and of itself. People blast them for harboring pirates. Fact is, if one wants to live in uncontrolled space, you have to be able to reason with everyone, good or bad.
While a Zoner may not be huge in the overall economic picture, they can and do sustain themselves and can provide rare commodities or even fly common ones through space that many cannot or won't fly.
somewhat different to what you wrote - which i find interesting.
for me, zoners are somewhat having their fingers in many affairs, - twitching a thread here and there. - they are not really puppetmasters for that matter, but they manage to manipulate others in a way that gives them a maximum of freedom in places that there is not really any.
about the political situation:
they are neutral - but its not a neutrality like the Junkers enjoy ( that is a neutrality given by being ... in the whole... invisible or too much trouble to deal with ) - the zoners enjoy a neutrality off force. - when you hurt them, they make sure it hurts you just as much. - that is a neutrality that can - if enforced ... ensure a greater resistance to changes, but that is also unstable if things go wrong.
the zoners force a neutrality at freeport 9 - by threatening the corsairs with their warships. - it tells them "if you harm us, we harm you" - ( whereas the junkers would emply a neutrality that would make the corsairs not even "think about invading" )
in omega-49, they enjoy a neutrality by employing the corsairs ( a funny and somewhat double bladed relationship that those factions have ) against any plans that the bretonians have. - they try to make sure that the corsairs are the first ones to fall to a conflict... but at the same time they suggest them that its in their own interest.
to protect themselves against the corsairs ambitious plans ( or might be plans ) - they "allow" the BHG to station ships at every freeport. the BHG is grateful for bases and supplies and grants the zoners an indirect protection against the unlawfuls.
its something like that "if any unlawful attacks a freeport, they attack the guild - giving the guild reason to massivly strike back, cause the guilds interests are affected".
so while the only other neutral faction, the junkers, keep their neutrality by keeping the fire low burning, the zoners let the fire burn high - but attempt to control it. - a dangerous "game". ( and it sometimes appears like a game indeed - as a whole, not for the individual zoner though )
about the military power:
the zoners have a military power, but no lore suggests how powerful they are. - they are one of the factions that have access to the most powerful ships - and are probably one of the factions that is able to deploy a large number of them - if they needed them. - but on the other hand, they have no "real fleet". they spread rumors that they have. - their greatest military power is rumors for that matter. - their ships are supposed to be "phantoms" - they hide in nebulas, they appears in "stories". no one can really tell how powerful they are.
the common zoner uses civilian ships - a pure understatement for such a faction - they also use freighters. no zoner uses transport class vessels. ( in RP, they rather pay others that own transports to supply them )
the original zoner ( vanilla ) was probably really some sort of hippie that went into the edge worlds to live his own life, free from the shackles of what was considered "civilization" for whatever reasons. - but the zoners in disco have grown past that stage. - they are not only "self sufficient" anymore, they trade more than they need ( if we include players and playerfactions ) they show ambitions greater than whats needed to only make a peaceful life.
its hard to tell what powers they have. - in the past - there were opinions saying that they have enough military power to overwhelm a house faction ... and there were opinions saying that they have almost no military power at all.
to support the rumor with one of the few bits of lore there are ... the zoner juggernaut was seen only in rheinland in a far distance of some patrol. it is mentioned that it was used to carry resupplies to some freeport - but its nothing more than a phantom.
the only other rumor about the warfleet comes from the corsairs that fear at least one juggernaut that stands ready to strike back at them if they go for freeport 9. - so one must decide ... is it the fear - or do the corsairs know more about the size / power of the fleet. ( nothing is said there )
the economic powers:
the zoners originally supplied themselves with what they needed - nothing more, as nothing more was possible ... and even what they needed was hard to find. nowadays, it appears that they are trading far more than they need for themselves alone.
the fact that they are THE main supplier of deuterium is part of that - as well as that they are sometimes right at the source of new mining places... places that are not yet exploited.
from what the players show - the zoners are rather filthy rich. they are traders in the first place. the idea of being independent has grown - and probably led to a society that is very similar to the society that they fled from.
the culture of the zoners:
there is no lore that shows how or if the zoners spread their idea. - they are not realls sharing ONE idea anyway - they rather share one dislike for the core systems. the fact that gran canaria is "buying" slaves for a good price might suggest that they indeed "recruit" from ppl that are abused in the core. but there is little information about all that.
the future developement:
zoners are bound to inhabit every bit of space that is not claimed ( yet ). they may be very interested in Gallia - maybe not even only in the edge systems but actually in the gallic society itself as it is not a core house. they will surely try to extend their influence and their trade to gallia - and they will offer informations and trade opportunities to them, i d say.
however - it depends on the first contact and the diplomacy employed by gallia itself. when gallia itself is as isolated as for example the coalition, there won t be much to do about them ( but smuggling ) - if they are open for a faction like the zoners though.... the zoners would probably try to establish strong relationships as a "partner" like gallia would provide them with political and economical powers that the zoners had no access to before.
* * *
all that leaves the question... are zoners that strong? - that ambitious? or are they still rather an oddity.
- for the idea of them being more powerful speaks the fact that more and more zoner installations are popping up here and there
- one of their greatest disadvantage ... not having a planet .... has vanished with the colonization of gran canaria
- their understanding of shipbuilding is among the highest developed factions - and they have secured their systems extremely well ( omicron-74 is a fortress )
but .... i think there might be a secession. zoners that establish a new society - and zoners that want to enjoy what they left the core for - being "free". cause in order to gain power, the zoners would have to build up something very similar to a goverment. ( zoner council for example )
edit: guys, may i remind you that its NOT a discussion about the players - but a discussion and opinions about the NPCs ( and i daresay, no NPC ever replied to you "you cannot touch me, lolz!" )
' Wrote:Three) Zoners who think they are invincible. I have taken to specifically targeting Zoners doing the Cambridge>Kurile run simply because I have grown to hate the faction with such a powerful loathing. The repetitive, 'you cna not tax me - im neutral lulz' drives me up the wall! go out and read the rumours! On Leon alone you'll find two rumours that attest to the fact Corsairs kill Zoners!
This drives me crazy with Junkers too.
The Congress has a policy that we pay ransoms or we face the consequences without complaint or retribution. Some of our members also pay a small 'retainer' if not taxed to keep the peace. This has the added benefit, if the pirate in question is a good one, of gaining an interception/distraction service.
Not a direct escort, mind you: what neutral entity would throw up such a flag?
Like Jinx said, keep the fire burning low and stay invisible.
I agree with Jammi in that they are just a bunch of individuals who really don't like inhaling 76% rubbish in their atmospheres, nor do they enjoy the hustle and bustle of planets, so they move to Freeports. Thats really all... They aren't a united front of intergalactic space nomads. They're more a riff-raff gathering of people who don't like their previous habitat.
-Edit- Now whether or not a group of individuals decide they want a destroyer and make a little team within a Freeport, well, thats the particular Freeport's business.
For me Zoner fleet is powerful because they have people from all wide Sirus. (if you escaped from liberty and you are navy pilot and you become Zoner you keep your experience in dogfight) They can chose between officers, pilots ect from all houses. Officially they are neutral. But in my opinion they are underestimated. They hide their`s Power under skin of trader. Why they do his? Simple THE WORST ENEMY IS UDERESIMATED ENEMY. Look how NPC Zoner react when Crosair try to pirate him they fight back! If someone would make Zoners pain they will face large fleet of Destroyers and Battleships send to eradicate every one on theirs way! Why? Because they have Order Tech. Ships design of Zoner origin are one of the best Sirius wide. They have copied Battlestar and placed them in theirs fleet. With house can tell that have 3 types of battleships? None. Why they are neutral? For me they have better things to do then annihilate and kill
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' Wrote:For me Zoner fleet is powerful because they have people from all wide Sirus. (if you escaped from liberty and you are navy pilot and you become Zoner you keep your experience in dogfight) They can chose between officers, pilots ect from all houses. Officially they are neutral. But in my opinion they are underestimated.
Pretty much what I said earlier but in a different way. Here's something for folks to consider. Zoners are generally quiet and keep to themselves. In real life, I've found that the most quiet types can often be the most dangerous.
The way I see Zoners should be is that they are a group of people that can't stand modern society and will go to great lengths to avoid it, much like space bound Captain Nemos, ingame rumours support this theory. To bad most player Zoners don't act like this.
In theory they would not be all that powerful. They might have a large fleet but it would be spread out across the sector. In addition I would think that they would have very little influence in house space out of their need to avoid it.
Seriously, all of the ingame lore indicates that Zoners avoid house space and hate it, but no players seem to behave that way. I find that quite annoying.
i d like you all to also take into account that disco changes factions. - is that how zoners are still to be seen?
keep in mind:
- liberty rogues are not the petty criminals anymore, not a loose band of individuals labelled "liberty rogues" but they are now - oranized crime
- the mollys are not a separatist group anymore, but close to forming their own republic
- the wild are not a distrubed bunch of mindless thugs on the loose anymore, but they are building up a hypergate in 58
- the BHG is not a bunch of head hunters anymore, but they have build a warfleet and are at war with the order
- bretonia is at war with kusari ( and vice versa )
- the junkers are not digging mindlessly in the scrap anymore for a small profit, but - well, there appears to be a larger scheme... .
- are the zoners still what they originally were?
many factions have undergone drastic changes.... the question is - have the zoners changed, too? - the faction itself has certainly, they have gained planets, systems, countless ships. but how does it affect the zoners?
I agree 100% with jammi. Zoners aren't universally accepted, they don't escape piracy, and they're not powerful or organized enough to maintain battleships.
' Wrote:I agree 100% with jammi. Zoners aren't universally accepted, they don't escape piracy, and they're not powerful or organized enough to maintain battleships.
Yes, but sombunall zoners appear to be rich enough.
zoners (small z) are idiots. They haven't graduated from dromedaries, and just barely discovered Eagles for their guard wings. I don't intend for the TAZ to be bound by their idiocy.
zoners are evolving, and have as much right to do so as anyone else in the sector.