Why we don't need powerful NPCs

[kidd_meier]

My 2 cents:

1. Each and every Guard system should be defended by the best the faction has access to, and in serious numbers.

2. Each capitsl planet should have the same. No more Outcast BSs 'anging aroun' Manhattan and such.
Same goes for main unlawful bases for factions without capital planets /hmm... most of those are in guard systems anyway/.
10k spam radius for them, maybe more.

3. Every major shipyard should have close to the same defences. You guard the place where you build your fighting ships, yeah? Same for the major naval bases.
5k radius for those.

4. Every inhabited planet and minor naval base should have some respectable defences, except special cases, according to game lore. Same goes for unlawful bases, according to their lore status.
5k here too.

5. Faction bases should have their defences according to the base's importance and the equipment available to the faction.

6. NPC Patrols /both lawful and unlawful/ should be restricted to the cases above, plus trade lanes, and JGs/JHs. Any other patrol straying more than 10k from base/jump point is pointles.

7. Non-fighting NPCs should be limited to certain locations. Please no more NPC blocked gates, eh?

8. Everything else can go, as far as I am concerned.

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"Come on, people. We have a job to do, so let's be about it" - Lady Dame Steadholder Admiral Honor Alexander-Harrington, RMN
A weapon is a device for making your enemy change his mind. The mind is the only battlefield that matters. Everything else is just ... fuss.
Lieutenant Lord Miles Naismith Vorkosigan / Admiral Miles Naismith/
"Always aim for the stars, boy. Even if you miss, you'll at least not end up shooting your leg"
Ascribed to General Count Piotr Pier Vorkosigan

<span style="color:#FFFF33">&quot;I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.&quot;</span>
Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear.

[Enoch]

I think the NPCs also need to be globally re-balanced. Lvl 19 Chimmies in Leeds but Lvl 8 Guardians in NY ? All military/police NPCs from each house need to be put at the same level (except the ones in Guard systems, of course). Make unlawful NPCs stronger in border systems and weaker in house space.

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[AshHill07]

I think the NPCs also need to be globally re-balanced. Lvl 19 Chimmies in Leeds but Lvl 8 Guardians in NY ? All military/police NPCs from each house need to be put at the same level (except the ones in Guard systems, of course). Make unlawful NPCs stronger in border systems and weaker in house space.

Erm ... the Navy NPC patrols in NY are defenders. The only Guardians are the ones escorting cruisers/dreadnoughts.

I spose the issue is because Liberty was originally newbies first space combat the ships that were there origianlly (Not new added patrols like dread patrols) are still useing the newbie gear they had in the original game.

I spose the best thing to do would be to limit these patrols to penny only (So rookies arn't getting killed in every single fight in thier starfliers) but buff all LN, LPI, LR, Outcast, Xeno, etc in the rest of Liberty.

I spose this'll turn Penny into sort of a Tutorial System though.

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\\ CDR David Roberts \\ CAPT Steven Eversman \\ VADM Ash Hill // RDML Chris Murray // CDR Mick Connors //
\\ SFC| Patrol-7 \\ SFC| LNS-California \\ SFC| LNT-Century // SFC| LNS-San.Francisco // SFC| Patrol-5 //

[Tenacity]

Playing with the keepers the other day, we had at least 20-30 NPC's all spawn on top of us out of nowhere, and this is when we had 130+ players on the server (last I checked, wasnt NPC rate supposed to go down with more players?) - needless to say it ruined the night for us.

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[Blodo]

And I don't see why this happens in the first place. Why should the NPCs disturb my actions.
Please note that the above is a mere example from my personal experience. I don't want this to be specialized in Sair NPCs in Delta or in Stilettos in Rheinland.

It's kind of like asking "why should pirates pirate my ship" or "why should lawfuls shoot me when i am 'rping' with traders on my pirate"... NPCs are supposed to provide the unpredictable backup/attack, and the extension of a faction's influence in a particular area. In my opinion NPC attacks just need to get defined a bit better, but they should by no means stop. They give life to otherwise lifeless areas, and give a decent reason for people not to loiter in enemy space for very long - because if they are attacked in a fair fight by another player, the NPCs will work in that player's favour in most cases. They do not "interrupt RP". If anything they add to the immersion.

NPCs aren't supposed to just be glorified defenders. They are supposed to provide the feeling of a battlefield in war zones most importantly, just as unlawful ones are supposed to show that there is a piracy problem within house systems. The server has far too few slots to relegate all the roles of a NPC faction to the players.

So I completely disagree with the idea of removing NPCs from player's paths. NPC attackers should still be around, as should NPC defenders, pirates, traders, etc. Changing them from quantity to quality (and better encounters) is already under way.

[Dab]

I'll share some of my perspectives from the viewpoint of the one working on the NPC aspect of the mod, and to give a vague idea of what kind of setup I'm trying to create.

Let's say that you are RPing with another player. If you are in a low level NPC area, you will be forced to make circles around yourself like a psycho in order for your shield to not drop. If you are in a high level NPC area, you are actually required to eventually dodge while you are talking.

Personally I don't feel very comfortable when I have to talk and dodge at the same time. And a logical question that somebody would make is;[/color]

I have had to deal with this as well, however, I disagree with you in that it is a problem. Obviously, you're in a location in which your faction has enemies. You shouldn't be able to just fly around without a care in the world. In these locations, you are the enemy and to be eliminated. The NPCs play out that aspect, but are much weaker than a player going after you, giving you some leeway. Operating in these hostile areas shouldn't be easy. As for impeding your RP, lets face it, NPCs affect it little enough as is. Flying circles while talking isn't difficult, and having your pirate sitting above Planet New Berlin with nothing to threaten you is far from realistic, or contributing to roleplay. As Aeternus said already; Being at enemy bases should be dangerous. Base turrets probably won't be getting a buff, but I will be using stronger NPCs around stations, and there will be increased patrols there as well.

Current setup;
Major planets = Battleship patrols. (ie; Planet Manhatten, Planet Los Angeles, Stuttgart)
War areas = Battleship patrols. (ie; Stokes Mining Station, Battleship Westfalen)
Major stations = Cruiser patrols. (ie; West Point, Ft. Bush, Shinjuku Station)
Minor stations = Ordinary template-level NPCs. (Riverside Station, Border Stations)
Pirate stations = Ordinary template-level NPCs. (Buffalo Base, Rochester Base)

I will be reorganizing this, not only to make capital ship patrols more sensible to their location, but also to add more variety now that there are more ships and shipclasses in use by the NPCs.

New setup;
Capital Planets = Stationary, undockable Battleship (works as a weapons platform), plus destroyer patrols. Possibly more stationary ships such as destroyers.
Major Planets = Destroyer patrols.
Minor Planes = Gunboat patrols.
War Areas = Capital ship patrols based on location. Front lines will have destroyer and gunboat patrols, strategic locations will have battleship patrols. Border areas will have gunboat and higher level fighter patrols. (See note)
Major Stations = Destroyer patrols.
Minor Stations = Gunboat and combat freighter patrols.
Pirate Stations = Gunboat patrols for factions whom have them, higher-level fighter patrols and combat freighters/transports otherwise.

Note; War area NPCs will not be so high level as to be a detriment to PvP fights. Capital ships will be roughly the same power and difficulty as now, but their escorts will be lowered in damage ability (made up for with armor buffs, so they will be difficult to kill, but have less ability to ruin pvp fights), and the 6-12 fighter spawns of .85 in war areas will still exist in places, but have drastically reduced difficulty. Capship patrol escorts will react more aggressively than in .85, where fighters won't keep returning to their formation, but instead target enemy ships as soon as within scanner range, and will continue until their patrol's main ship is outside of scanner range, at which point they will retreat. Gunboats will also do this, but their return range from the main ship will be at less distance, so they will return to formation at a shorter range than fighters, keeping to their role of being anti-fighter defense for the main ship.

Why do I have to dodge the NPCs, in order to have a proper discussion with another player?
Why should an oorp force of the server (NPCs) disturb my RP?

I (and I think Aeternus as well) disagree with your labelling NPCs as an OORP force. I see them as a fundamental part of mod and server roleplay. While they may be considered minor compared to other players, they still have a role and perform it. Military NPCs attack pirate characters and vice versa, this is integral to those factions' roleplays. NPCs embody the "traditional" roleplay of a faction, that many people base themselves on. While they do not conduct unique or original RP, like players often do, they still serve as a baseline of the faction. If they are shooting you, it's likely because you are an enemy to their faction, and it is their duty (and the duty of players of that faction) to destroy you.

[font=Arial]2. Secondly and less importantly, the lawful NPCs demand your cargo and the unlawful NPCs pirate you.

Why is that happening?
Why should the NPCs get involved in the RP side of the server?

Again; NPCs ARE part of roleplay, so of course they should be involved in the RP side of the server. I really don't see how you could claim NPCs are OORP. They are about as RP as you can get. Even more RP than players. They don't have any OORP bias, they perform their duties and roleplay to their utmost capability and do not deviate from the faction's RP norms. I daresay some players could learn a thing or two from their non-human partners. Police organizations stop crime and catch smugglers. If they are demanding your cargo, it's because you are breaking a law, and a player of that faction would do the same thing. I hardly see how them doing that is an impediment to roleplay?

But if you read that thread, you will also notice that the NPCs will have the turrets of real ships. Imagine how difficult will be to do basic things in the server, such as RPing. We should not let that happen.

I need to clarify on this.

Transport NPCs will be using the same turrets as players, but only the Solaris transport and the normal transport turrets, not the pulse or heavy turrets. The way NPCs use these turrets, they will be far less lethal than any player transport, which is already notoriously bad against player fighters. Transports are getting this, and transport shields, in order to make them more durable. Currently, a light fighter can demolish an NPC transport in well under a minute with no threat to himself. Attacking a transport and its escorts should be a harder ordeal. As transports do not chase targets, but rather run away (this is a coded part of their behavior), they have very little chance and no inclination to ruin pvp fights. As such, the only times their buffs will come into effect is if players are attacking them. And in such a position, their buff won't save them, just make it slightly more time consuming, instead of a VHF killing it in 10 seconds, or a bomber killing it in 3.

So, transports have no capacity to ruin or even make difficult "basic things such as RPing." They will, instead, add to the roleplay atmosphere, rather than being paper thin bullzeyes floating in space for an opportunistic pirate player to blow up just to see an explosion.

[font=Times New Roman][size=13][color=#FFFFFF]The purpose of this thread is to go against the notion that the NPCs should be powerful. Strong NPCs are only needed in Guard systems and in a few other selected systems. Nowhere else. Gallia included.

What I want to know is what you consider too powerful, and what you consider an appropriate difficulty level? Do you think NPCs should be at the level of Liberty's, Bretonia's, Kusari's, Rheinland's, etc?


I'd just like to reiterate, here at the bottom of the post where it's easy to spot, that NPCs are not being designed to be capable of ruining the average PvP fight. That is far from what I am hoping to accomplish. The only NPCs that will be truly dangerous in a PvP fight will be capital ships, and base patrols. The former can be avoided, and the latter occur only at locations that should be very dangerous for you, but are also small locations that you can avoid (and often should avoid).

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[Dab]

Addendum;

Those of you concerned about the difficulty of NPCs in the upcoming version, please go to the Okinawa system and test the NPCs you find there. Those NPCs were made custom for that system when I designed it, with new loadouts and armor. Those NPCs will be the template I use for the majority of NPCs in my update. If you think those NPCs are too powerful, let me know what you think should be adjusted.

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[DarthBindo]

New setup;
Capital Planets = Stationary, undockable Battleship (works as a weapons platform), plus destroyer patrols. Possibly more stationary ships such as destroyers.

Does this include the Hispanic capitals?
Also, :ylove:Dab, and /agree.

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gone four years, first day back: Zoners still getting shot in Theta :|

[West]

Addendum;

Those of you concerned about the difficulty of NPCs in the upcoming version, please go to the Okinawa system and test the NPCs you find there. Those NPCs were made custom for that system when I designed it, with new loadouts and armor. Those NPCs will be the template I use for the majority of NPCs in my update. If you think those NPCs are too powerful, let me know what you think should be adjusted.

Just checked AFA npc in okinawa. Falcon 12 lvl, with x2 lvl 9 guns x1 lvl 5 gun and lulzy rocket. No idea how much HP it have.. + really low hp shield.

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[Dab]

Does this include the Hispanic capitals?

Possibly. Either this will be done, or another idea might be implemented instead.

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