faction authorities

[UnknownObject]

hmm interesting....
thats why im not independent. and why im in LSF.
That gives me an excuse to enforce the contraband thing. And if an independent forced a smuggler to drop their cargo and the indy tractored it in. I would force the Independent to drop it so i can either A: make money off the contraband or B: Destroy it. Probably B. But i would take it elsewhere not my own space as that would be corruption.

I know you are not alone in doing it... and I know it is sort of a server convention... BUT... I don't really see a RP reason why =LSF= character should be able to boss other LSF characters around. You are supposed to be the same npc organisation.

To me it is acceptable for you to give other LSF a slap if they are doing things out of RP (such as acting as smugglers themselves)... but I don't understand you getting them to drop contraband they have got from being LSF and confiscating it from smugglers.

[Jinx]

that all doesn t quite answer it.

first of all - i cannot really enforce a law in the omicrons or out of house systems. - cause players have a strange point of view there - saying its outlaw territory, and there is no law to enforce. - hard to do it then.

about house zones: of course a BHG will demand the cargo and of COURSE it will be instantly destroyed, or better force the trader to destroy it himself.

but if we say that BHG cannot really inspect outside house zones, cause there is no law. - and they cannot do their thing in house zones, cause its what the police is doing - what do BHG actually do?

they are by no means criminal, they are much more lawful than any other organization, having ALL criminals on their red list - and not just a few.

@Badger: does that mean that i do not try to confiscate it - but downright mark a smuggler as criminal and shoot him down? - cause, i know i could claim a bounty for it, when i post a screen of him smuggling - which is against house law. ( in terms of having a reason to do that )

edit: so, what the npcs do is practicly wrong - as they inspect / claim the illegal goods to destroy them. if they only headhunt - and only with a contract, we can forget about the faction alltogether, imo. - hostilities are solved between factions, rarely are BHG called, as everyone hates them, unlawfuls and lawfuls alike, funnily enough.

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[UnknownObject]

Jinx I'm not sure I see where you are going with this.
You are a BH.
You are ALLOWED to do it anywhere.
However just like BH npcs.. you are not going to be LIKED by anyone for doing it.

BH are generally upholding the law for profit.... to get smugglers to destroy it is a bit too holy for me (but that is up to you and your RP). Why are you doing it? You don't get paid to stop traders... so why risk getting shot and making enemies unless it is to profit by selling the cargo.

When a BH npc announces "score... I've found what I'm looking for" I don't believe for an instant they are doing anything other than helping themselves to my profit!

[Badger]

they are by no means criminal, they are much more lawful than any other organization, having ALL criminals on their red list - and not just a few.

I beg to differ, but having all criminals on your red list doesn't necessarily make you a saint. It's well known that a lot of Bounty Hunters started out as criminals themselves.

@Badger: does that mean that i do not try to confiscate it - but downright mark a smuggler as criminal and shoot him down? - cause, i know i could claim a bounty for it, when i post a screen of him smuggling - which is against house law. ( in terms of having a reason to do that )

Against house law to post evidence of criminal activity? I'm sorry what?

As a Bounty Hunter, that's your job. To collect bounties from the house after killing known criminals. How else are the house going to know the smuggler is smuggling unless you tell them?

[edit] changed wording for clarity

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[Jinx]

BH are generally upholding the law for profit.... to get smugglers to destroy it is a bit too holy for me (but that is up to you and your RP). Why are you doing it? You don't get paid to stop traders... so why risk getting shot and making enemies unless it is to profit by selling the cargo.

When a BH npc announces "score... I've found what I'm looking for" I don't believe for an instant they are doing anything other than helping themselves to my profit!


well, the little voice message "score ... i ve found what i m looking for" is generic for any other police, too. actually the npcs follow an identical pattern. - but it answers the question sort of.



but is it a consensus that BHGs are activly "stealing" the goods to sell themselves? isn t that piracy? - ok, they don t look for tax - or in terms of a lawful, won t demand a fine. - but if that is the general idea of the BHG .... .



from the point of view of a trader: ... i allways thought bhgs are much more lawful. more of a policeforce. how are they accepted by the lawfuls with such an attitude? how do they fly around all sirius without a police caring for them. how comes they demand cargo right in front of police and military bases - fly their big ships around even guard and core systems when they are "in fact" not much better than any petty criminal. - just better organized.

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[UnknownObject]

but is it a consensus that BHGs are activly "stealing" the goods to sell themselves? isn t that piracy? - ok, they don t look for tax - or in terms of a lawful, won t demand a fine. - but if that is the general idea of the BHG .... .



from the point of view of a trader: ... i allways thought bhgs are much more lawful. more of a policeforce. how are they accepted by the lawfuls with such an attitude? how do they fly around all sirius without a police caring for them. how comes they demand cargo right in front of police and military bases - fly their big ships around even guard and core systems when they are "in fact" not much better than any petty criminal. - just better organized.

I think you can look at why Private security/ Private bodyguards/ Private Investigators/ Bounty Hunters are tolerated in most countries in the world today.

Generally they go after the real bad guys... Do they stick within the law? They should, but most don't, well not entirely. If they get caught the law will come down on them, but generally the police will LARGELY look the other way unless they do something too obvious. It is a case of the enemy of my enemy is sort of tolerated so long as they don't themselves become more of a threat than a help. Well that is how I see it.

[Jinx]

just to make it clear - what i try here is to understand a faction that "appears" quite clear at the start - but when you look a bit into it - you see more and more irregularities. so thats when its allways good to collect multiple views:)- as far as i see it.. i just gained a LOT more freedom when it comes to hunting down criminals.... which is good, cause cheshire is my exhaust char - since zoners can hardly blow stuff up. ( and usually i don t even need a good reason for it, cause people queuing up to attack a BHG - so its mostly self defense... )

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[bluntpencil2001]

I can see the BHG threatening to destroy smugglers unless they pay a 'fine' ('bribe'). This wouldn't be piracy, since it is really just corrupt law enforcement...

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[Xoria]

When the server rules don't apply, and the solid RP "rules" don't apply (like Corsairs cannot ally with Outcasts), then the rule to fall back on is the oldest one there is: might makes right.

If I was smuggling and a BHG scanned me and demanded that I surrender the contraband, I wouldn't view it as a demand from the legal authorities, and I wouldn't view it as piracy. I would view it as a selfish demand from an opportunist, who would have to force me to comply. (But I wouldn't take it personally.)

If a house clan will pay BHG for proof of destroyed contraband, then the BHG ought to destroy all of the contraband, if they can get the smuggler to drop it.

If the nearest house clan will NOT pay for destroyed contraband, then the BHG should tractor in what they can, destroy the rest, and turn in the contraband to a planet for a reward from the planetary authorities. In such a case, the BHG ought to be announcing in system chat what is going on so no one thinks the BHG is the one smuggling.

I do have a bit of a problem with a BHG destoying a ship over contraband, though. That kind of risk of loss of life ought to be reserved for the legal authorities, not just any old neanderthal with heavy weapons and a Bounty Hunting license (no offense Jinx). Damage their ship down to 1% hull, then follow them to their destination CD'ing them all along the way while calling for the house authorities, but a BHG killing over contraband is murder in my book. You can still make a smuggler's activity pretty difficult without killing them.
It looks to me like the LSF, SF, SA etc ought to step up and proclaim their policy on rewarding lawful characters for busting smugglers.
Basically, I look at BHG engaging in contraband interdiction as just barely one step removed from extortion/blackmail. "Pay ME or I'll turn you in."

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[Equinox]

I kind of agree with majkp here, Bounty Hunters don't actively enforce menial laws against things like smuggling. That's the work of police and military. Usually, a Bounty Hunter's only source of income is that from hunting bounties. Taking contraband from a smuggler isn't a lawful action for a Bounty Hunter, it's like a mercenary stealing crack from a drug dealer. Taking smuggled goods is pirating for anyone except police and military.

Thats how i see it, BH's wouldn't bother with sitting in Alaska and stopping smugglers when they come past, the simple reason is they are NOT getting paid for doing it and thats the BH's main objective.

I don't quite understand it to be honest, when they drop it what do you do? because if you pick that up and sell it yourself then that would be an unlawful act, and if you destroy it you get nothing out of it so i don't see the point, BH's wouldn't do the job of the police without getting paid, unless they like blowing up trade ships that is.

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