Before a mod or admin locks this, note that I'm not 'reopening a locked thread.' I just want to understand something.
So why can't the OSF rebel? Why can they not make their own In-RP decisions and face the In-RP consequences? I forgot what exactly it's called but i believe there's something where the faction can ban indies/unofficial sub-groups with approval by Admin. Why not just do this? That's what they wanted, isn't it? Or instead of locking the thread, why not let them settle it in the thread? See where it leads..
I guess they can rebel, but only if they use ID different than Outcast... I guess reasoning is that even if aproved, most suffering would be indies that get caught in middle of it.
' Wrote:I guess they can rebel, but only if they use ID different than Outcast... I guess reasoning is that even if aproved, most suffering would be indies that get caught in middle of it.
I don't think any indies would necessarily be caught in the middle of it.. Only their own. And if that's what they wanted.. then why not grant them that? It's In-RP.. I mean really. Joe didn't have to stop that. Everything could have been worked out In-RP.
As far as I know, I think they can shoot Outcasts with Outcast ID'd and IFF'd ships, it's just that the 101st can FR2 them if they want to, thus forcing them to stop using that ID.
Basically, they need a diffrent ID if they want to rebel. So pretty much what others said.
Also, I see that certain someones are typing replys right now, so inb4biasconspiracyelitismalienstinfoilhat.
Edit: if this thing gets locked, is it ok if we start another about the ability of a faction using an ID to rebel and fight the official faction using that same ID? I'm a bit curious.
Long answer: Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanctiiooooooooooooon meeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssss.
Eh? What do you mean Joe.. No sanctions would be involved from the way I see it. Here's how i thought everything would go:
They rebel. They get banned from outcast stations. They lose their ships (at least i think that's what happens). They realize they made a mistake. They beg for mercy. 101st humiliates them In-RP. OC life moves on.
' Wrote:Eh? What do you mean Joe.. No sanctions would be involved from the way I see it. Here's how i thought everything would go:
They rebel. They get banned from outcast stations. They lose their ships (at least i think that's what happens). They realize they made a mistake. They beg for mercy. 101st humiliates them In-RP. OC life moves on.
Which part did i get wrong? :/
The part where they don't wana change ships and admins have to do stuff for each individual ship. And when OSF makes new OC ships those ones gotta get FR5'd and others things aswell.
Oucasts shooting at other outcasts has an issue with rule 6.10. That being that if we regard an NPC faction as representing a single homogenous group, internal conflict within it would be causing the various participants to behave in a way counter to that which their ID demands they should.
However, the 101st, being the official representatives of the OUtcast NPC faction, have the ability to excersize faction right 2.
Faction Right 2 Wrote:RIGHT 2) Official factions have authority over players of the same NPC affiliation, as long as RP justification is provided. This authority applies in forums and in-game, and applies to player faction diplomacy, and strategic and tactical direction. However, exercise of that authority, on the forums and in game, is restricted to official faction members with the rank of the official faction leader and one rank below him/her. The authority may be exercised through the use of in-game in-RP orders, which, if not obeyed, can result in in-game in-RP consequences (arrest, court martial, and even "lethal" force in extreme circumstances). Official Factions cannot, under any cicrumstances, require another player to follow non-canon RP if that player doesn't want to.
Now, with regards to this situation, I can assume the 101st excersized faction right 2 on an independant, and then proceeded to shoot that person when the order was not complied with. This is legitimate.
The 101st CANNOT excersize faction right 5 on an individual or group who use an OC ID. Doing this results in problems where you have OC ships which are required to behave like outcasts as a result of their ID, shooting at other outcasts who they have just been rendered hostile to. This is something that creates a massive grey area in the rules.
Official factions inability to FR5 their own indies is honestly a real pain for those faction leaders who need to get rid of problematic individuals, who simply refuse to listen, or consistantly behave in a stupid manner. Trust me, I know how this goes. You find someone shooting at non hostiles, and tell them not to, at which point the following interaction happens:
Wayward indy: "I won't listen to you, because I'm flying a bigger ship."
Faction leader: "The official faction rights allow me to issue this order."
Wayward indy: "What're you gonna do about it? Make me hostile?"
Faction leader: "I can't do that, however I can blow you up."
Wayward indy: "LOL, that's only going to make a difference for four hours. Essentially, I can continue being stupid and annoying until such a time as I get sanctioned for being stupid and annoying! AWESOME!"
And then the faction leader storms off in a rage, wondering why it is that depsite the fact he's supposed to be given the rights to deal with this, he is infact utterly and completely powerless to solve problems for any more than four hours at a time.
The reason faction powers are so limited, is that the admin team doesn't vet each faction leader to determine if they are appropriate for the job, should faction leadership get transfered to a new player.
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