Quote:"Why would any trader fly anything but Zoner colours?" And here's my answer: I have no bloody idea. I've pondered that question myself ever since Ad Infinitum fell through and I switched over to Zonerdom. Zoners can do anything that a regular Trader ID can do, plus more,
The reason I don't is because trading can be quite dull. A Zoner ID makes it even more so. An ID like a Trader ID livens up the otherwise boring trade hauls. I can sometimes lose track of my money progress having so much fun dodging pirates. I think this is more in the spirit of fun RP. It's possible to view a Zoner ID as a sort of cop-out to get around confrontational RP. This is not my view because I have been around long enough to know that Zoner pilots can be very good. This perception, nonetheless, can pop up. The biggest trasnports make so much anyway that you get to your goal in spite of any added losses and have more fun in the process.
Making money un-molested is fine and the Zoners I've met on the server are all seem pretty cool but I get more of a sense of accomplishment if I get chased trying to get it through.
' Wrote:@Mal- Just because Myradic is not 'registered' dosnt mean anything, your councel does not represent all Zoners.
Hmm.. Perhaps you misunderstood. I was not questioning Myriadic's right to comment on the matter. I was merely reflecting my personal opinion that he was sounding like a blithering idiot.
' Wrote:Hmm.. Perhaps you misunderstood. I was not questioning Myriadic's right to comment on the matter. I was merely reflecting my personal opinion that he was sounding like a blithering idiot.
Fair enough, I agree.
Quote:As to your snit regarding AW.. que sera.
Mal
Care to say that in english, Sir?
There is nothing worth living for, unless it is worth dying for. -Elizabeth Elliott
@MB52: "What about restricting Zoner traders to only flying freighters (Small) and not the large transports? There has to be some sort of disadvantage to being neutral, and carrying less cargo would be it."
but there is. first of all - and many people will agree there... the pvp aspect of the server is a very important one - so to speak the essence of a good roleplay is the risk/chance to have a good pvp. now being a zoner, you ll see very little pvp. you cannot just go around and blow things up - of course, you cannot do that as a pirate either, but ... lets say there are easy excuses to still do so - like simply flying to where you know you ll meet outcasts.
another disadvantage is your rep sheet. ever tried to get all factions - and i would advice to include the BHG aswell + maybe at least the more common guards into your white ( neutral ) range? - its quite some work, considering you cannot really fly around blowing stuff up - cause that would be oorp:laugh:.
but lets try to see it from another point of view. ... in one way, you are correct. i made a similar suggestion in an old post, too. practicly i was suggesting to ONLY allow pure cooperation traders ( that is roleplay ALG, Cryer, Ageira etc etc. ) to use those transports. maybe allow generic traders transports up to a medium size ( e.g. firefly ) and freelancers and neutrals ( well, back then, it was common to use that ID, too ) freighters up to 500.
there was some resistance to that ( well, i included a few roleplaying things that are simply impossible:)) and i realized that - even if it might make sense, it hurts the GAMEPLAY more than it helps the ROLEPLAY. now, about zoners, i would say that its OK, if they used only medium transports - while leaving the really big stuff to the inner core traders. but it won t solve the problem that there ll still be transports in pirate systems being pirated. restricting zoners to smaller transports is a whole different issue - but legitimate. if the community was serious about it - i d support it. ( well, i can easily do that - cause i do not have a trader anymore:laugh::laugh:--- oh, wait, i d have to get rid of my liner then ... )
edit: added colour for no reason - but it looks funnier that way
Could [insert random faction here] survive without the Zoners? Yes, probably.
.. Would they want too, though..? Probably not, under any circumstance.
Using the excuse that you're a terrorist or a pirate just doesn't really fly here, I mean.. You don't see terrorists bombing Wal-Marts nationwide simply because the president of America buys his muffins there, now do you..? Nor do you see terrorists hijacking pizza delivery kids simply because they're delivering food to the president. It simply doesn't happen with the exceptions of corporations like Republican Shipping and Interspace Commerce, both of which cater to a certain sector of space, whereas Zoners freely deal with everyone.
In 99.9% of all cases, if you're looking to remain consistent with the setting of Freelancer, then Zoners mean more to you than you do to them. Continuously raiding Zoners (especially as a pirate or terrorist character, concepts that generally act out of survival rather than impetuous desires) may result in your home planet or base not receiving any food the next month. In other cases, it might result in an interstellar war, where the Zoners could simply just entice one of their many friends to deal with the problem for them.
Ie; Outcasts continuously raid Zoner transports and eventually the Zoner Council is fed up with it. Instead of wasting even more money hiring Mercenaries and creating a private army to deal with the threat, they might just go proposition the Xenos or the Rogues (or any of the other numerous factions around who're always in need of the things that Zoners offer) to deal with the threat for them under the condition that they'll recieve free shipments of food and weaponry for X amount of time.
Zoners might not come slingin' flak at you like the rest of the multiverse probably will, but just because they choose (they aren't forced to be neutral you know, it's just a choice they've made as a society) to remain neutral in all affairs that isn't to say that you should consider them as "less" of a threat, or as holding less influence. The Zoners have more installations in Sirius than any other faction (probably even alot of the Houses), they're very rich and they obviously know how to use this to their advantage.
I don't really have much of a problem with Traders using the Zoner tag. The life of a pirate is meant to be hard, how many pirates do you see (even in Freelancer) living a lucrative life thanks to their underhanded efforts..? I really can't sympathize for all those pirates out there crying about how they aren't getting paid simply because they've managed to get the best guns in the game before someone else, you know..?
wow a lot of post since I went to bed. So I think we've skipped over a big part of this conversation, we arnt seeing the forest for the trees. What I mean is, I've never ever seen an NPC zoner trader ship. Everyone is saying how attacking zoner traders is OORP, but how bout zoner traders themselves beeing OORP. I know, I know we seem to have agreed that zoners are a trading factions, but I think that is wrong, I would think they were more of a middleman organization.
You see it doesnt really make sense to me that the zoners would send transports all over the Sirius, purchasing goods to bring back to Freeports. It makes much more sense to me that the Zoners would use the house and corprate, and pirate trading networks that were already in place. Having other traders bring goods to the freeports would be the way a nuetraul organization would, "we dont control what we sell, we sell what traders bring to us." would be the thought. Really, I dont where the thought that because Zoners trade with everybody, that they are then "A Trading Orginzation." Every faction trades with somebody, does that mean every faction is a trading faction? Aside from that, didnt I read something about the zoners being an exploration orginazation? So my question is, are Zoner traders OORP in the first place?
edit: Jinx just pointed out to me there are tradeships near some of the freeports. While that is true, we dont see them trading throughout the universe, like other trading factions.
' Wrote:wow a lot of post since I went to bed. So I think we've skipped over a big part of this conversation, we arnt seeing the forest for the trees. What I mean is, I've never ever seen an NPC zoner trader ship. Everyone is saying how attacking zoner traders is OORP, but how bout zoner traders themselves beeing OORP. I know, I know we seem to have agreed that zoners are a trading factions, but I think that is wrong, I would think they were more of a middleman organization.
You see it doesnt really make sense to me that the zoners would send transports all over the Sirius, purchasing goods to bring back to Freeports. It makes much more sense to me that the Zoners would use the house and corprate, and pirate trading networks that were already in place. Having other traders bring goods to the freeports would be the way a nuetraul organization would, "we dont control what we sell, we sell what traders bring to us." would be the thought. Really, I dont where the thought that because Zoners trade with everybody, that they are then "A Trading Orginzation." Every faction trades with somebody, does that mean every faction is a trading faction? Aside from that, didnt I read something about the zoners being an exploration orginazation? So my question is, are Zoner traders OORP in the first place?
Sigh...
And I just posted in a poll that Disco gets my vote. To stay, that is, regardless of Server problems.
You want to change the Zoner Infocard? I then have two choices: Change the TAZ's affilliation, or say "Ciao, it's been fun."
Not an option. I've invested a crapload of time in my RP, both ingame and on these bloody forums. Now I'm basically being told that I've been ridin' the gravy train?
' Wrote:Could [insert random faction here] survive without the Zoners? Yes, probably.
.. Would they want too, though..? Probably not, under any circumstance.
Using the excuse that you're a terrorist or a pirate just doesn't really fly here, I mean.. You don't see terrorists bombing Wal-Marts nationwide simply because the president of America buys his muffins there, now do you..? Nor do you see terrorists hijacking pizza delivery kids simply because they're delivering food to the president. It simply doesn't happen with the exceptions of corporations like Republican Shipping and Interspace Commerce, both of which cater to a certain sector of space, whereas Zoners freely deal with everyone.
In 99.9% of all cases, if you're looking to remain consistent with the setting of Freelancer, then Zoners mean more to you than you do to them. Continuously raiding Zoners (especially as a pirate or terrorist character, concepts that generally act out of survival rather than impetuous desires) may result in your home planet or base not receiving any food the next month. In other cases, it might result in an interstellar war, where the Zoners could simply just entice one of their many friends to deal with the problem for them.
Ie; Outcasts continuously raid Zoner transports and eventually the Zoner Council is fed up with it. Instead of wasting even more money hiring Mercenaries and creating a private army to deal with the threat, they might just go proposition the Xenos or the Rogues (or any of the other numerous factions around who're always in need of the things that Zoners offer) to deal with the threat for them under the condition that they'll recieve free shipments of food and weaponry for X amount of time.
Zoners might not come slingin' flak at you like the rest of the multiverse probably will, but just because they choose (they aren't forced to be neutral you know, it's just a choice they've made as a society) to remain neutral in all affairs that isn't to say that you should consider them as "less" of a threat, or as holding less influence. The Zoners have more installations in Sirius than any other faction (probably even alot of the Houses), they're very rich and they obviously know how to use this to their advantage.
I don't really have much of a problem with Traders using the Zoner tag. The life of a pirate is meant to be hard, how many pirates do you see (even in Freelancer) living a lucrative life thanks to their underhanded efforts..? I really can't sympathize for all those pirates out there crying about how they aren't getting paid simply because they've managed to get the best guns in the game before someone else, you know..?
So I'll take these one by one,
First - it's funny you should use Xenos as your example as they are the one group of people not welcome on Freeports.
Second- Again we are assuming that the Zoners are a large- tight knit monolithic organazation. Diffrent zoners react diffrently to difrent situations.
Third- All factions need the zoners more then the zoners need them? I cant see how that is possably so simple, Houses could and corporations would accually do better without them in the mix.
Last- as to your final poiont about pirates just "gettingf the best guns," I'll I can say is bugger off, any good pirate on disco(and there are lots and lots of them) is using in RP weapons and if not, they get sanctioned. It's this kind of idiocy that really bothers me. And making a comment like that without any proof, is basicly a flame of all pirates. I wish you had your ships in your sig, cause you'd meet my eagle with level 9 guns to show you we dont need the top weapons to deal with traders like you.
Zoner are, i guess, suppliers and explorers and all in between. And to supply they need
A: produce B: trade.
So in my view one thing doesn't invalidate the other.
Exploring have costs, how would they support the cost of deep space exploration? trading.
Supposedly GMG as their allies would back up some of the founding for the expeditions and the Order would supply the ships.
That's all great, but in actual gaming, what would Zoners do, they cant pirate that's oorp, they can to some extent bounty hunt (at least that's what says in the card) but isn't it oorp to bounty hunt and still remain neutral with all?
To explore, fine,
To produce...to produce what? hang around the Freeports and lay eggs:)so trading and some eventual double gaming seems the least oorp solution to me.
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