I think you should RP the treaty with Bretonia, its more interesting than just assuming it happened. And the news gives no details. Of course it would have to be fair.
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' Wrote:Main weakness you say, yes I agree with you, but that weakness can be easely exploited by bretonia players, like "we supply you, you will do what we told, if won't.. we will cut our supplies." That's why we will be searching for alternatives. Samura have all reasons to supply us, so why not?
Powergaming... uhm no, key weakness cannot be main for all duration of time, don't you agree? As I told we won't tell, "oh we don't need your supplies", we will slowly get over from Full dependans (first month maybe two) to half or even less later.
Yes we are working(if it can be called like that) Dab gave us his proposal (3 main features that somehow growed into 8 later.. with bunch of not needed restrictions) we didn't liked that restrictions, We gave him counter proposal that covered all what need to be covered.. but no answer followed (as I know).
It's only few days out.. we even didn't met grn ingame to start -DO- something... we will see how it will grow in future.
Oh, I whole heartily agree they can be exploited by the Bretonian players. That is the entire point of a weakness, for someone to exploit them. Do I think they should be allowed to exploit them in a manner which harms the Ronin player faction? Of course not, but I do think they should be allowed to exploit them. Otherwise what is the point of them?
Yes, Samura has all the reason in Sirius to supply the Ronin. I, however, don't like the way you state your intention. You're basically saying, we don't agree with the story line because it makes use weak, this is how we are going to get around that weakness. Even if you role play out that Samura supplies you, by the story line your main means of supply is Bretonia, thus you are still at their mercy. My issue was that Zelot has been known to ignore things like that in the past (Zoners/Corsairs and GMG/Kusari, thouse the Z/C one both sides ignored lore).
Until a story line update says you're not being supplied by Bretonia, regardless of what you as a player cite, you are supplied mainly by Bretonia. Saying after a month or two you won't be is indeed power gaming and ignoring the story line to your benefit.
I know perfectly well how a working with Dab is. I worked with him from a GMS/GRN stand point (very little), from a Zoner/GRN stand point too. Its back and forth, as it should be. Good role play is the product of cooperative play.
A treaty that cannot add anything new without going against the Lore is pretty much unnecesary, and requires a lot of time to be writen, demanding effort from both sides.
If one of those sides doesn't want to invest that time and effort to write it, what's the problem? If the treaty can't add anything new.
BAF and LN signed a treaty in curaçao for the security of cortez and magellan, something that both factions were already suppose/allowed to do. They did it, because they wanted to do it, not because it was necessary. Any BAF or any LN player could already go to those systems for patroling.
Same goes for Ronin and BAF, the things they can already do won't be changed by this treaty, so, sorry for BAF, but if they don't want to sign a treaty in forum, it's their decision.
And it also doesn't mean they ignore that is Bretonia who supplies them, it doesn't say they are almighty, hell... they are stuck in leeds, almighty my underpowered magma sabre!
It just means they don't desire to write it.
Now, I can imagine a lot of people waiting for a single Ronin to screw it up, and FR5 the entire ID.
But if you dont have a treaty, how will you know what you can do, seeing as it doesnt say ingame? Can brets land on ronin BSs? Can Ronin go to bret guard systems? Ect ect, you'll have to sort those out on a case by case basis, and it might lead to fights. Surely simpler to make a proper treaty?
Also, why would you think bret would want to FR5 Ronin? That seems very paranoid, bret needs all the help it can get with gallia!
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' Wrote:Also, why would you think bret would want to FR5 Ronin? That seems very paranoid, bret needs all the help it can get with gallia!
Because I've been knowing them for a couple of years : )
Otherwise, why would they be here trying to get the ronins to force something is not needed.
' Wrote:But if you dont have a treaty, how will you know what you can do, seeing as it doesnt say ingame? Can brets land on ronin BSs? Can Ronin go to bret guard systems? Ect ect, you'll have to sort those out on a case by case basis, and it might lead to fights. Surely simpler to make a proper treaty?
Really it's simpler? Or it's an excuse to shoot those who don't want to go in forum and read treaties?
If BAF doesn't want ronins in dublin (just for example) they can inform them about that.
I will tell you how a treaty would work about that.
X ronin goes to Dublin, some BAF player found him and shut "Ronins are not allowed in dublin! Die kusarian"
Without a treaty they would be forced to tell him that themselves, oh lord, that would require a longer player interaction.
Or maybe not, maybe with the treaty they would still have that longer interaction and maybe they don't shoot at all.
But with a treaty signed, they are allowed to /l1 pewpew.
That's -my- point of view, it doesn't mean that those are zelot's reasons for not signing it.
' Wrote:My issue was that Zelot has been known to ignore things like that in the past (Zoners/Corsairs and GMG/Kusari, thouse the Z/C one both sides ignored lore).
I'm sorry but this thing about H-fuel was ignored not only by Zelot, but by whole Kusari(Kishiro included) becuase of 1 thing.. noone stopped kishiro from getting H-fuel from GMG to Kusari. And it was leader of Kishiro who told us to ignore that (in that time it was Ivan I think). But this is not the point here.
Yeah, you are right.. it's hard to work with Dab if he want to place restrictions that have no place in that treaty.
But eh... it's only couple of days. I hope something will change in future.
Quote:Until a story line update says you're not being supplied by Bretonia, regardless of what you as a player cite, you are supplied mainly by Bretonia. Saying after a month or two you won't be is indeed power gaming and ignoring the story line to your benefit.
No need to distort my words, noone ever told that we won't relly on bretonia, I only told that it won't be on 100%... if they will decide on whatever reason to stop supplying us... we will be able to survive somehow.
If Bretonia stops supplying you, you will start to fall apart.
If you can operate normally without Bretonian supplies, why the hell are you so reliant on them?
The Ronin rely on Bretonia.
The term rely implies that without Bretonia, the Ronin would be heavily weakened, if not disabled.
You have a ceasefire.
If you annoy Bretonia, they can get rid of that ceasefire.
Stop trying to bypass your weakness, accept that you are not playing an almighty house navy.
You are a minor force in comparison to your benefactor, who could easily enough tear you apart.
' Wrote:So you want to try to start off a new faction by refusing to roleplay?
Bretonia is going to require a treaty being roleplayed out. Not only does the news not say what is in the treaty, thus making it necessary to actually roleplay that out and get a written treaty for us to abide by, but a treaty was not roleplayed by you before the .86 release during the transition.
' Wrote:Us playing our role as laid out by the storyline actually doesn't require us to sign anything with the player factions involved. It involves us going out ingame and playing our role as laid out by the storyline.
My suspicion is that this "treaty" would be used to force all sorts of restrictions on the faction that can then be used as a reason to penalize the faction later on, or break from the storyline.
' Wrote:The Queen required the Exiles to sign a treaty to do that.
The lore says you sign a treaty.
Right now you're refusing to sign a treaty.
No, right now Dab, you're trying to be all of Bretonia by yourself. The treaty is SIGNED. That has already happened. Just like Toledo got blown up - it's something that has already occurred.
Haggis, you mentioned that it needs to be in writing. That's right - it just doesn't have to be right now, and it also doesn't have to go through 900 hours of forum roleplay such that Dab can twist things around so that Zelot and the Ronin get screwed over by Bretonia - which is a valid concern by Zelot, because it happens. Yeah, Bretonia loves paperwork - but there also has to be some common sense here.
I see the whole thing being something along the lines of "Ha-ha, we Kusari and Bretonians are fighting. Holy crap, who are these new guys that are wiping out both of us? Hey, can we work together a bit, since these guys want to kill both of us? Okay with you? Good with me. Once our combined fight as temporary allies is over, we'll get back to you on our beefs with each other. Right now we either co-operate, or we BOTH get killed.
As Joe and Doc said - just play the freaking game for a while. It's still in beta right now anyway - that's why things keep crashing.
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
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