' Wrote:You put in there that every TAZ vessel is a temporarily autonomous zone. Obviously this doesn't mean every TAZ ship is immune to piracy, but it also cannot mean that every TAZ ship holds with it its own ZOI. ZOIs are static and take lots of time to change. A floating ZOI is just asking for confusion.
Peter Lamborn Wilson, aka "Hakim Bey", created the concept of the Temporary Autonomous Zone decades ago. Were I at my own computer, I could deluge you with the appropriate links.
The concept is more philosophical than political, Yngen, but bears striking resemblances to the basic tenets to Zoners as well. By "temporary" we do not mean that it will cease to exist at some point in time; only that the elements which allow for ontological anarchy and personal autonomy are impermanent in nature, and that a "TAZ" must also be fluid and impermanent to ensure the freedom of the individual.
Perhaps it would be more accurate to define the TAZ's fleet as a "Distributed Autonomous Zone". I quote from deoxy.org:
"A Distributed Autonomous Zone is much like a Temporary Autonomous Zone (TAZ) only it's stored holographically throughout the world as a network of safe houses, enclaves, refuges and lairs. Denizens of a Distributed Autonomous Zone migrate freely between outposts. Distributed Autonomous Zones are robust, difficult to extinguish. They flourish in the interstices, or right out in the open. Whatever one can get away with. See you there."
I concur that the current paradigm of ZoI's is static. However, the individual TAZ member is a perfect example of ontology-in-motion. If you expect to get the same response from every TAZ vessel or member you encounter, or for that response to be static and fixed at the next encounter, then you will be sorely disappointed.
To put it in less esoteric terms, we carry our Temporary Autonomous Zones on our backs.
So now yur gonna make them even MORE confused. TAZ DAZ and pazazz. Poof all the small minds just had ruptures in their melons. I know mine is pretty well swelled right now. Much need for some of that Kallisti. But a VERY valid point. Even if Mal-isiously esoteric and stretching of the mind, if you have a dictionary near, you are a lucky one. I totally agree we are not asking for our walks to be free of hassle at all. We simply ask that if you want to come killing us that you don't whine if we spend our hard earned money killing your ship in return. Many times after having been blown to bits my pod is out there a while. So its not always easy to track your target yourself. A merc or BH in that part of Sirius is a much easier solution for me. I have not placed a bounty yet, but I will. If that makes me have some OORP somehow, well then you are really not up on who I am and my RP history. Also I will let my friends know about your underhandedness. I will probably be drunk so you WILL sound mike a Tyrantic Villain. Stories blow up for effect. Get your facts straight? Nah, simply take a second and say hmmm. If he's in Dresden now and I'm in California, I'm not gonna chase him. I know the Hessians have some guys that do this stuff for a good price or a good deal next trip thru. Its the Way. Do unto others as you would have done unto you. If noone finds out, do stuff to make it harder to do unto you. That makes it easier to do less to others. I'm formally a pirate. I have left the life to serve a higher power. * Whispering can be heard. "Kallisti is a higher power shut up, they might here you." -Looks around. Must be in my head. So I have been on the other end. its no fun if a trader just drops cargo and hightails it. Might make you more money, but its no fun. Chase and catch were fun as kids, now in space ships we play it again. Works fine, its the whining that causes issues.
@ all that have a prob with bounties. Think it thru, you think if you pirate me I'm the ONLY one gonna pay to get your head? You live to become a bounty, and they are made just for that reason. Ever seen CourtTV? Lots of people hire people to kill people, even lawfuls and good people. I've seen a mom ask to have her child done. She was a 'Lawful' School teacher, Little did she know the 'hitman' she was trying to hire was a cop. So bounties can come from ANYONE. Even a well trained officer will sometimes do something JUST for his own gains.
Your right about the small minded individuals. Only those of us with strong penials will survive the torrentous downpour of links that Mal will provide once reaching 'home'.
There is nothing worth living for, unless it is worth dying for. -Elizabeth Elliott
Criminals steal, kill, murder, kidnap, lie, cheat, etc, all. They do all of that not only to other criminals but to their own criminal organizations and even their own brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, etc, all.
To say because a faction is neutral or even green to a criminal means you should not do anything negative to them. Well...it does not work for me.
Criminals do whatever they want. Thats why they are criminals.
Now, that is not to say there will be no repercusions and consequences. OH..there will be. That is part of being a criminal.
However, to say a criminal is being oorp when they are just being a criminal is not accurate to me.
To me taxing Zoners by pirates and even killing Zoners by pirates is not oorp.
The way to handle it is as Mal has done. Do it IC. Bounties. Warships. Folks should fear Zoners. We are rich and we help EVERYONE. Let me say that again. Zoners, real Zoners, help EVERYONE. That is why we can fly the best ships, the biggest ships, with the best guns and gear, anywere in Sirus..well just about. Dam nomads.
The thing to remember is most of the time when a Zoner is getting pirated it is by an individual. For that individuals faction to publicly IC'ly support the pirating of Zoners...that to me is oorp.
It is alluded to in a few infocards and rumors that Zoners have known a war will come eventually with someone. And for hundreds of years the Zoners have been preparing for it. I feel most of the leadership of all fl factions knows this and is why they would not publicly support any of their members from pirating Zoners.
The point is handle this IC. If a pirate wants to prey on ZOners then Zoners should gear up and stop it.
If pirates want to deal with a few dozen zoners in the biggest baddest most well equiped ships in Sirus that have free rein to go ANYWERE being after them 24/7 I say let em.
Tricky situation.. Zoners are sometimes getting killed by pirates just like Junkers are sometimes killed by lawfulls. Im not sure how often that is, but it happens... Anyway. Another part of the coin, lets talk about Junkers. They arent criminals, they're just.. weird.
In the RP sense Junkers also maintain neutrality just like Zoners do. The diffrence is that the Junkers are very carefull on contraband (while Zoners dont run it), they barely get caught and uncaught is not a thief. Although everyone knows that Junkers are smuggling, which makes Junkers sort of friendly with pirates, they also trade with pirates, making them deal with them fair. Black market etc. The most important thing is that Junkers make a neutral ground for pirates to land and they certainly need it, because they cant land on house systems for shopping. However Junkers tend to make good reputation among houses too. They scrap fields looking for equipment, even though this is only cover, taking scrap metal to melting facilities, doing favour for the houses. (according to Junker NPC in Texas). Also they occasionaly sell out Rouges or other minor criminals (according another NPC in New York), making the status with houses all the better. Another point is that Junkers bribe both Police and Pirates that helps them to improve relationships and maintain stability.
Police know but their hands are tied, pirates have to bare and so the neutrality remains.
the junkers neutrality is a different one. Junkers are quite - to the inside aswell as to the outside. they are neutral, because they are causing no trouble to pirates or lawfuls. in addition to that, they are a connection for many lawful investigators, cause they have more insight into both worlds.
if i d have to describe their neutrality, i would say it is a very passive neutrality. don t get caught, don t behave strange, just pretend to be not there at all. Junkers are like beggars sort of, normal people "do not see" them, as long as they are quite - mind the middle age; - beggar guilds could grow quite powerful.
On the contrary zoners are activly neutral. they are working for not getting attacked. they may be quite to the outside, but behind the obvious, they are forging connections, demanding little gifts here - giving treats there. - its much more a give and take than what the junkers do. zoners are not neutral to outcasts and corsairs cause they pretend to be invisible - on the contrary, they make sure they are clearly there and also needed for both factions. zoners activly make sure that the war between the two greatest rivalling factions outcasts and corsairs never ends too soon. they meddle with politics in a way no junker would dare to. junkers wouldn t like to manipulate those factions, cause it would mean to be in the focus of both - if things go wrong.
oh, and by the way - zoners smuggle just as much as junkers - depending on the place you are within sirius.
so what do both factions recieve from their effords and their very different approach towards neutrality - or "not to get attacked". the junkers are ignored - they are free to do their stuff as long as they don t bother others. if others start to look upon them - they would most probably pretend to be harmless and unimportant - too unimportant to have any lawful really bother or any pirate really go after them. they are more or less the lower class of neutrals - being able to provide both, lawfuls and unlawfuls with unique information from the very base of things that happen.
zoners have their freedom, too. they can usually roam where they like and have the power to enforce their wishes. when someone tries to look into what they really do - they can probably make sure nothing is there to be seen - provided they pay enough money for that. when it comes to hostilities, there have been quite some suggestions how they could / would behave.
they also provide lawfuls and unlawfuls with unique information, but on another level than junkers. zoners ( in my opinion ) do not have the insight in the lower classes like junkers - but they know more about the upper classes. politicians, lawyers, high ranking military people - but rather not what some common ensign thinks.
Intresting, I'd put it the other way around, completely different actually. Again, my thoughts:
Zoners are inactive neutral guys, they deal in local market, such as common resources like water and food selling to criminals that land on their bases. And I dont think they smuggle much if they do at all, I thought they only keep Artifacts on bases for random pirates to buy and deliver for their own use?
Junkers are active guys who crave for power, they bribe authorities, pirates, trying to reach influence in a silent, quite underground way. They are active since they do the actual trading (smuggling more so). Remember that scap metal is more like cover than actualy buisiness. They are far more corrupted than Zoners, so they also must have more corrupted activity.
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