Watching the ongoing discussions, I think it would be a good idea if both parties made indy ships on both sides so they can try it out and balance sides when they have not enough enemies to fight.
seriously though, this is going off track but I think I'll join.
i think there can hardly be any doubt that Liberty and Bretonia has the best and most complete ship lineups. Yes, a Libdread flown properly kills a Turtle 10 out of 10 times. And having both LSC´s and LABC's means that Liberty pilots have the tools to either outmaneuver or simply outtank/gun the Rheinland Cruiser (which is a good ship in my opinion - Liberty just has a lineup that counters it).
Bergelmir and Wraith are better than any snub Liberty has to offer (in my opinion), but when it comes to caps Liberty's lineup is so complete that there's no point in denying its superiority over that of Rheinland.
(11-16-2012, 11:43 AM)Anaximander Wrote: seriously though, this is going off track but I think I'll join.
i think there can hardly be any doubt that Liberty and Bretonia has the best and most complete ship lineups. Yes, a Libdread flown properly kills a Turtle 10 out of 10 times. And having both LSC´s and LABC's means that Liberty pilots have the tools to either outmaneuver or simply outtank/gun the Rheinland Cruiser (which is a good ship in my opinion - Liberty just has a lineup that counters it).
Bergelmir and Wraith are better than any snub Liberty has to offer (in my opinion), but when it comes to caps Liberty's lineup is so complete that there's no point in denying its superiority over that of Rheinland.
I deny it.
Turtle can easily killa LD. all it needs to do is cruise up and press right click. a LD cant kite a turtle in the real word because the turtle will just cruise up as the LD gets cd-ed.
LSC stands no chance vs a RM cruiser. Unless the RM cruiser is piloted by a blind man who has no arms.
Rm cruiser can simplu outrun the LABC on thrusters and bombard it to hell
Rm snubs are supirior to LN snubs. except the Phantom (which is more RFP). that thing is just crap with wings.
(11-16-2012, 11:28 AM)Timbuktu Wrote: Watching the ongoing discussions, I think it would be a good idea if both parties made indy ships on both sides so they can try it out and balance sides when they have not enough enemies to fight.
Oh dear god this.
It's rare I'll agree with you on anything, but seriously, this.
(11-16-2012, 11:28 AM)Timbuktu Wrote: Watching the ongoing discussions, I think it would be a good idea if both parties made indy ships on both sides so they can try it out and balance sides when they have not enough enemies to fight.
I dunno about you, but I don't have the money floating around to buy an RM BS to experience it on the other side from a similar possition.
(11-15-2012, 01:59 AM)AshHill07 Wrote: What do you mean we don't use tactics? Several of the successful defences have been done with an SFC| leading the group.
We came up with the idea of using jump holes when they were camping the gate, Savi came up with the idea of going though Virginia when they started to catch onto us using the holes, as well as grouping them together and hitting them from differnt angles at the same time.
The 41st are relatively good too. And I refuse to belive the [LN] would be in the official possition they are now if they didn't use tactics either. I'm sure both of those have come up with battle plans behind the scenes that I'm not aware of.
And like LolRawr!? said, your basically trying to form a group, that already exists. Infact seveal exist, includeing 1 for all the groups, with a bunch of indies, to help us work together.
WOW! THESE TACTICS SOUND AMAZING! not
in any case they are pretty trivial. and not hard to master at all.
I think Andrew has a point though, make a group that it dedicated to make creative new tactics to suprise the enemy in different senarios. Not just camping a gate/ and or JH and CHHHHAARRGGGGGE -_-
(11-15-2012, 03:01 AM)Reptile Wrote: i have idea.
When you will collect this LNS indies,who will and want listen and fight - give them special number in their name.Let them be something bigger than LNS,but not official group. Only number for fast invite and understanding that this people will listen you and will do your orders. Then you can sort players who will work with you and who will not.Who will not - not give them commands -they will not listen you,you will only waste your time.
For example LNS-Hawaii =====>LNS-Hawaii|3rd (3rd - will mean third heavy battlegroup)
And when you will collect some players - give them this number.
In perfect situation,to feel that fleet is "real" - give them some similar names. Cities,rivers,mountains,lakes or other.
Like we has - all our ships has name similar to group of cats.Like Lion,gepard,tiger,leopard and etc.
This is will be interesting to see fleet with similar names,organized and powerful.
For example:
BSs - names of states:
For cruisers and labcs:
Names of cities:
LNS-Seattle|3rd
LNS-San.Diego|rd
LNS-Philadelphia|3rd
LNS-Detroit|3rd
For Gb - on your vision.
and work with them,use different setups in fight and look for your mistakes.
I realy want to see that liberty will stop crying and give us a fight.
I dont believe that camping or other not giving you a chance to kill us all.
We have much weak ships...
Thats not tactics, thats organisation. If you want to start a group for someone to be head battle-manager then go ahead. Its what you do in a fight that is tactics.
(11-16-2012, 04:29 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: WOW! THESE TACTICS SOUND AMAZING! not
in any case they are pretty trivial. and not hard to master at all.
I think Andrew has a point though, make a group that it dedicated to make creative new tactics to suprise the enemy in different senarios. Not just camping a gate/ and or JH and CHHHHAARRGGGGGE -_-
Who said we just "CHHHHAARRGGGGGE" in after? Yesterdays was actually lead by me, although my inexperience leading showed quite glareingly we still didn't loose that many ships, and we destroyed all the enemy ones. Well, other than the few that cloaked and ran obviously.
Turtle can easily killa LD. all it needs to do is cruise up and press right click. a LD cant kite a turtle in the real word because the turtle will just cruise up as the LD gets cd-ed
Dashiell, stop using your Connecticut fair duel example. No heavy battleships will be able to cruise on light battleships if your team is 1) competent 2) organized. That.Is.Impossible. Simply impossible. There's no efficient counter to CDers outside of Cloaking devices.
But that's only half of the problem.
The cruise power drain nerf, that took his place a year+ ago (or was it more?), to stop battleships from pewing fighters on EK, broke balance even more. But I guess, since the majority of veterans prefer snubs or light/agile capital ships and are almost never found in Turtles and other super-heavies, nobody even bothered or seriously raised that question.
Before it was 5 seconds and Heavy was starting his fight with 0 energy against 7-8 millions + 220 or 270k x 5 seconds. of Light/Medium dread's powercore.
Now it's 20 seconds, i.e. 220k or 270k x 20 seconds + 7 or 8 kk energy vs 0.
now transform this into 0.40 or 0.28 DpE of Cerbs/Prims, and take into account that LD got 7.200.000 hull with bots, while turtle got 10.400.000 hull with bots, bats excluded, on Cau8.
And what if you get CD'ed right after you engaged cruise? Same conditions, but at long distance.
Good luck. lol.
Cloaks are the only things that help them to survive, but cloaks are available for both sides, and can be used by both parties, in the way most fitting for their and adversary's ships and weaponry.
(11-16-2012, 04:29 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: Thats not tactics, thats organisation. If you want to start a group for someone to be head battle-manager then go ahead. Its what you do in a fight that is tactics.
With respect, but there're no tactics without organization. A well organized fleet with poorly made tactical decisions will do better than poorly organized fleet with well made tactical decisions.
I'm being Cpt. Obvious here.
As for the efficient cloak use, I've already dropped possible ship setups in the previous thread. I think it was Jack's one, about Capital system raids, somewhere in the end.
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