Discovery 4.87 Balance Discussion

[Veygaar]

So they are again -the- solo piracy boat?
I don't mind if they can thrust at the normal transport speed. But not at the speed of the small ones. It's the small transports' perk that they can get away from pretty much everything that is not a group of snubs.

Yes, it's not a bad thing ya know.


---


And on removing CDs from em? So you want the perks to pertain to traders but not pirates? Let pirates use em too if you're so bent on having that ship class keep an advantage.

Seems to me you just want ships to have advantage for the trader side but not the pirate. If i want to pirate in a fast transport to keep up with these new fast traders, I should be able to. If you take the CDs from the faster transports, how is any pirate not flying a snub supposed to keep up? Pirates don't just fly snubs, and shouldn't be made to have to choose it to be able to keep up even a measly profit (when compared to trading). Let them have variety, give some love.

---

You're hating the idea of an ideal "solo piracy" ship but all for an ideal "solo trading" ship.

---

Veygaar for Admin Moderator 2013!!!

[Narcotic]

Also, Orca and Scorpion have terrible rear archs.

With the newly added nerf to the Turret Speed on Gunboat Turrets, the Scorpion rear archs make it one of the worst if not the worst GBs for combat. Firing only TWO turrets at a time to it's entire back hemisphere and 4 only if the target is perfectly centered to it's rear.

Given it's slow agility nigh of that of an Imperator (which can fire 6 to it's rear by the way) but sporting the low hull and core of a medium Gunboat, this ship could do with either rear firing arch improvements or an agility improvement.

The Scorpion was meant to be useless in every regard since .85 anyways. And it won't change, because bias.

Now with .87 the Irra Nomad Cruiser got declared as useless with the -50 m/s impulse speed nerf.

Nomad factions definitely need some dev's love. Weak antagonists are no fun.

---

Lee's Logs | Lee's Diary | Nat's Story | AI Shodan | Rogue Clyde | Braun's Logs | The Narcotic | The Pandora | Biographies | Feedback

[Jack_Henderson]

And on removing CDs from em? So you want the perks to pertain to traders but not pirates? Let pirates use em too if you're so bent on having that ship class keep an advantage.

[...]

You're hating the idea of an ideal "solo piracy" ship but all for an ideal "solo trading" ship.

A transport should be a transport. It should be used to... transport things.

It should not be a fighting ship in disguise.

That's why I wrote a few posts earlier:
> more cargo hold on these small transports (below 1500 is ridiculous and no one flies it as a transport... actually, small and fast transports should have ~2000 cargo hold)
> no offensive capabilities (no CDs)
> good defensive capabilities (they have lots of guns + TS/TZ)
> high survivablity (agility + small hitbox)
> high durability (up to CAU8)
> while still staying in the role of the transport

These should be perfect smuggler ships.
They should be great for blockade running
They should not be mini gbs with basically no cargo capacity after you load armor.

---

+ IMG| DISCORD: https://discord.gg/TWrGWjp
+ IMG| IS RECRUITING: Click to find out more!

[Veygaar]

I guess I'll requote myself...

You're hating the idea of an ideal "solo piracy" ship but all for an ideal "solo trading" ship.

---

Veygaar for Admin Moderator 2013!!!

[belarusich]

Irra now has not "50 less speed", it has 130 thruster speed, impulse speed doesnt really care.

[Zayne Carrick]

I guess I'll requote myself...

You're hating the idea of an ideal "solo piracy" ship but all for an ideal "solo trading" ship.

Guess this is because Jack is professional powertrader.

I'm, however against CDs on small and manygunned transports, like AT.
Because I simply will grab one of this instead of gunboat for piracy purposes. Gunboat should have as much speed, as light transport. And AT, annapurna and so on shouldn't have CD.
Leave cargopiracy to GAT, Ptrans, BWT and Firefly.

[TLI-Inferno]

And on removing CDs from em? So you want the perks to pertain to traders but not pirates? Let pirates use em too if you're so bent on having that ship class keep an advantage.

[...]

You're hating the idea of an ideal "solo piracy" ship but all for an ideal "solo trading" ship.

A transport should be a transport. It should be used to... transport things.

It should not be a fighting ship in disguise.

That's why I wrote a few posts earlier:
> more cargo hold on these small transports (below 1500 is ridiculous and no one flies it as a transport... actually, small and fast transports should have ~2000 cargo hold)
> no offensive capabilities (no CDs)
> good defensive capabilities (they have lots of guns + TS/TZ)
> high survivablity (agility + small hitbox)
> high durability (up to CAU8)
> while still staying in the role of the transport

These should be perfect smuggler ships.
They should be great for blockade running
They should not be mini gbs with basically no cargo capacity after you load armor.

Not all transports are corporate storks. They could be military transports hauling supplies in which case they would need combat effectiveness. They could be an all-purpose ship for a freelancer who can't afford anything better but wants flexibility in being able to do missions as well as haul a little cargo on the side. They could be for pirates who will demand a small portion of a transport's cargo and have a bit of firepower to enforce their demand.

This isn't intended to be a stork for people to powertrade with; it's intended to be a very enjoyable multi-purpose ship.

Diversity of applications is what makes a game fun. If you want to narrow down people's options until every ship type has only one generic purpose, this will become a very dull and boring game.

I do however believe that it could stand to be changed. Right now it's a very inexpensive ship, and as such is balanced that way. I believe that freighters already fill the role of an inexpensive transport with small cargo and decent speed; the Pelican should instead be significantly more expensive but also be slightly improved.

I believe it should have its price increased from a bit under $4,000,000 up to around $35,000,000, its cargo increased from 800 to 1200, its hull increased from 60,000 to 72,000, and its turn rate increased from 40.87 to 45.84. It should also have its two class 9 gun mounts changed back into class 10 missile mounts. Fighter guns and transport turrets don't mix very well, throws your aim off, it works better with missiles, in addition to being much more interesting that way.

Some of you might say "What? How?" Have you ever flown the Bumblebee? It turns at 45.84 and has 1,800 cargo. It is a very slender ship and quite a pleasure to fly. My proposed changes to the Pelican, along with its significantly increased price, are entirely feasible in my opinion.

However I do believe that it should keep its very small power core. Having a much smaller core than other transports forces the Pelican to use small transports shields and low-power turrets, which makes sense both for RP sense and for PVP balance considering its small size.

[Sabru]

A transport should be a transport. It should be used to... transport things.

It should not be a fighting ship in disguise.

Ahem......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_raiders <----- Unlawfuls could try this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship <----- Lawfuls could try this

you were saying?

plenty of opportunity for both lawfuls and unlawfuls to do the above. would give more depth to the eternal pirate vs lawful conflict.

---

[Jack_Henderson]

No need to discuss this further. I voiced my opinion. That's all. You showed another appraoch. Devs might take it up or not. I still feel that the transports that cannot actually fit their role as transports should not exist. Imo they require a cargo buff, and a nerf of aggressive potential. But that's only my opinion.

---

+ IMG| DISCORD: https://discord.gg/TWrGWjp
+ IMG| IS RECRUITING: Click to find out more!

[Yber]

Transports are meant to transport, therefore:

Buff the cargo capacity.
Remove their gun hardpoints.
Increase the hitbox size.
Enhance the hull (and thus b/b).
Reduce their thruster speed.
Add a CD.

What points for the trader does it hold?
1: Higher profit (giving that the overall ship prize wouldn't increase which is plain logic)
2: Higher survivavility chances in the long run (eg gunboat vs transport scenario).
3: Higher chances to survive to a capital ship (cruiser/battleship) thanks to the CDing ability (no more LF CDing + battleship/cruiser cruising on top of the 5ker).

What drawbacks does it hold for the trader?
1: Inability to defend himself against any attack, which means the need of escorts. Transports are meant to carry stuff, not to zoom out over 9000 kms and murder the occasional snub pirate.
2: Inability to dodge projectiles, but hey, you're not supposed to shake like a bunny on a transport, are you? Grab a freighter if you want dodging.
3: You're slower so your dodging is harder. You're also easier to catch by any ship type and be overrun by a gunboat.

A pirate transport is meant to pirate (every variant of it). Therefore:

Keep the guns on it.
Nerf the current amount of hull. Trader's escort/s should be able to put it down before he does his thing.
Keep a (360?) CD.
Increase the hitbox size? I think Ptrans/gallic assault/etc are already easy to hit but I might be wrong.
Don't increase the cargo hold, because your guns take room don't they?
Buff their thruster speed over the other transports? I don't know if that's possible with the FL's engine, but if it is (probably creating a new "pirate transport" category would do) then it should happen. Pirates ought to be able to catch up with the traders.

My 2 cents.

---

inb4 Sirius gets renamed to XTF.