Are Traders a bit over-protected by the rules?

[chopper]

I was just in Magellan, pirating a guy who is 81. lvl. I asked for 1.5 million credits, he said fine.
I waited. No trade screen. I warned him again. He said he has no idea what he needs to do.
Firstly, I thought it's a trap/trick! So, i stripped his shield, and asked him if he knows now.
He managed somehow to open the trade screen, and transfer me 2.321.540 credits, instead of 1.5 mil.
When asked why, he said he couldn't 'aim' on exactly 1.5, which means he has no idea that he can type a sum in there.
Now, have in mind, that is an 81. lvl trader. How the hell is that possible?

Anyway, that got me thinking.
We have a few problems on server, and we'v seen more then a few capital whoring issue threads.
We had many suggestions how to cut down the level. First step was upping the prices for caps.
Okay. Now, it seems it's not enough.

So, my question is, if there is such a huge problem with capital ships, why are we still protecting traders?
Phantoms can't do all the work, and few other Terrorists can't as well, so, who could?

My proposal would be to give certain factions a right to shoot on Traders in one system.
Certain factions are for example Xenos, Gaians, Farmers and Bundscuch.
Now, each of these factions could get a one system in which Traders aren't safe.
For example, Colorado for Xenos, Frankfurt for Bundies, Kyushu for Farmers and I have no idea which one for Gaians, since i know very few things about them.

I mean, it's just a dumb proposal, I don't think it will be even considered.
But the point of this thread is - are we doing things right?
Okay, I agree that it would be impossible to trade if anyone could shoot you.
But these factions would actually be in RP to shoot traders that come in their way.
Maybe we'd have a flood of Xenos flying in Eagles, shooting up traders, but I think even that is better then the current situation.
At least they can't fly anything bigger.

It's obvious that Traders are leading to capital ships. More traders, more capital ships.
So, why wouldn't we stop protecting them at least a bit, so they have to spend more time on server before they acquire their capital ships.

Just a thought, but I guess something similar can be done.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[Carama]

instead of harassing traders ya can focus on the cap ships and start a cap ship killing faction

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[BULLDOGNK]

each faction who pirate sets up their own time frame for pirating.

Take my Faction for instance, we only tax 2 mill per player and that covers them for 4 hours, but if they blatantly keep coming in front of us while we are in system we ask for a day rate of 10 mill.

i dont think anything needs changing and not all traders buy battleships i know of 7 traders that fund the NovaPG and other factions do the same.

so to me chopper old son this is a rant for no reason and i can not see why there needs to be a change, if they delay paying take them down to 10% of their hull with no regens, you will then see how quick they pay then.

Cheers

[chopper]

Nah, I don't think you'r getting my point.
It's not the point to kill them all, I can do that with any of my Pirate characters, I just place a 20 mil tax and that's about it.
I don't want to do that.
Here is the Xeno example :

They are limited on fighters only. Why? Because they are terrorists.
What can they do with their terrorism? Nothing. Or, in best case, they can ask him to drop a cargo.
Which isn't really terrorism.
So, why are the Xenos terrorists then? And what makes them different then the other pirates?
Absolutely nothing.

Point is, I think it would contribute to the server.
Why? Traders would hire escorts, probably, when going trough these systems.
That means some work for mercenaries.

This wasn't a rant. I don't have a Xeno (anymore), nor do I have any of proposed factions characters.
It's just silly for real vanilla terrorists not to be terrorists, while others are doing their duty.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[BULLDOGNK]

Ok Now i agree on that one.

so what would you want the Xeno ID removed or modified?

Maybe put it in the player request section in the MOD discussion thread?

Cheers

[Kambei]

we only tax 2 mill per player and that covers them for 4 hours

realy? From when? NovaPG taxed my trader on every loop trought sigma, it was once per 15 minutes. My friends have same experience. Protected traders of RHA beg me almost every day to do something with that , when Im loged in same time when is Nova pirating in sigma 13. Maybe you need to manage your people better to obey your words because you say 4 hours but reality is different and that make not very good name to Nova.

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[Internity]

:lol:ah c-mon traders aren't that safe, I can tell ya, I already know. I tried an experiment and trade whole day same route and around 7 pirates asked me for 2 mil that day. I don't remember well.
My opinion is that traders aren't that safe because you can meet a pirate almost everywhere most of the time.

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LNS Ithaca

[Dusty Lens]

Perhaps I'm approaching this from the wrong point of view, but it seems as though that the problem that you're describing is more with the people than it is with the system.

As it is, traders are offered no real protection outside of level restrictions and that they cannot be destroyed prior to a demand being placed upon them; be it tax or dropping their cargo.

If a player is going to grind his or her way to level 81 without ever having engaged in enough social interaction as to understand how to open a simple trade window, that's on them. But I would dare propose that allowing certain factions free reign wouldn't curtail that attitude of quasi isolationism. If anything it would simply attract a similar class of player who would be more than enthused at the prospect of simply destroying without care or concern, which is an issue that crops up from time to time within the Xenos.

I do know that you mean though, and where you're coming from. Today either alone or with a friend I engaged at least nine transports. Of those nine only -one- complied with the request that they drop their cargo, and it was that same one that actually responded in any way to the red hot RP hotness that I was tossing their way whilst typing with one hand soaring through asteroids after cruise attempting trains.

That one who complied then came back later on with intent to make us explode.

But, yes, people would rather logout/run over and over again or simply type 'pls:)' ad nausea than dare open their chatbox for two moments and throw a bit of substance in there (other than a stream of PMs).

But I'm not sure that simply blowing them up at every opportunity would solve that.

Eh, my two cents.

*rant/whine off*

[BULLDOGNK]

realy? From when? NovaPG taxed my trader on every loop trought sigma, it was once per 15 minutes. My friends have same experience. Protected traders of RHA beg me almost every day to do something with that , when Im loged in same time when is Nova pirating in sigma 13. Maybe you need to manage your people better to obey your words because you say 4 hours but reality is different and that make not very good name to Nova.

i would like proof of that then i would kick them out of the faction.

prove it or dont lie

Cheers

[Jinx]

"It's not the point to kill them all, I can do that with any of my Pirate characters, I just place a 20 mil tax and that's about it.
I don't want to do that."

-> well, thats not possible. i thought that, too. but was shown that one must not ask for outragous amounts to fulfil the rules, even if the roleplay would urge you to "destroy rather than tax".

to add something to the discussion about "what a pirate can do". since i just sort of downgraded Clover to a Griffin ( rather forced than pure choice, its the only LF i can fly as a gaian that is acceptable ) - i tried to review my options as a so called "terrorist - that is practicly a pirate".

so here is the story:
i had to think about it, after i was flying in a fully outfitted Virage after a simple large train with the usual 100k shields. he refused to pay the usual 500k and i opened fire. i had the best possible weapons ( 6x gaians angels ) ... and was some sort of a laughing matter for that trader. a powerbar made me strip half his shields, then i would have to regen, and so did his shields. - i disabled the tradelanes ( we started out little chase at ID-14 ) and i kept disrupting his cruise. now i concentrated a little too much on damaging him, so i used up a lot of bats and bots while he pummled me down with his few lvl4 transport turrets ( wow, those things are tough, when you re not too far from the transports ).

we ended up with me disabling every single lane, keeping him on travel speed, but due to a lack of power ( gaians angels aren t exactly efficient ) i wasn t able to do much more than a few scratches on his hull. all the chase lasted like 20 minutes.... at that time, he redocked at ID-14 again ( somehow we were flying a circle ) - and i retreated to islay with like 5% hull and no bats/bots ( concentrated on disrupting and evading only in the end )

after that... i thought about the term piracy again. in the end, i don t need to destroy a trader maybe, but i can make his flight a real pain by keeping him slow and disabling every single lane. that behaviour might be closer to the term "terrorizing" and so might be closer to what gaians should do. ( again, they are terrorists but they don t go and kill others - it is written, that they terrorized spa and cruise by disrupting their flights - but not by blowing up full liners )

all in all, the rate of success is quite high though. - i think out of 10 transports i engage, 8 will comply and pay up. some haggle - or don t haggle but only put slightly less into the transfer window, - but all in all, most are just fine, even if they KNOW that i can hardly do much but slow down their progress. ( of course you don t get the hardcore traders in leeds - but rather the sort of RPing folk ... compared to sigma-13, i guess )

strengthening up pirates so they can pirate in everything? - no good idea, - it ll cause more reports, cuase people accidently blow traders up. besides, if mercs / BHGs are "unlikely" to hunt in capital ships, pirates are very unlikely to pirate in capital ships. - the maintenaince costs of those ships will be much higher than pretty much anything you gain from piracy. ( and you cannot ask for outragous amounts, just cause you fly something expensive )

what i do not like too much is the thought that traders lead to capital ships. - of course, i know that you are right with that. but as a character, i have to consider a trader to be a trader, not a tool to buy a big ship. ( unless roleplayed that it is the very same person )
so i cannot punish a trader, cause i know that at some time, i might end up with the same player ( but a different character ) in a BHG battlecruiser chasing my little fighter through half of sirius.
right now - pirates, if they are organized in a playerfaction, are strong enough. lonesome pirates lack the power, but thats their choice - and as described above, they have other means to get their cash or make a traders life difficult.
right now, traders and pirates are well balanced, imo. the upgrade of the transport turrets is a good one. even a train can do a serious bit of damage to a fighter if caught unaware, a containertransport can even blow up a gunboat when the gunboat pays not enough attantion. pirates in packs can easily dispatch a trader though.

changing something there may lead to more problems.

edit: a "cap-killing-faction" ? - last time i checked we were a roleplaying server; - i don t think any of the NPC factions would set up a cap-killing-faction... thats a player idea that can hardly be based on any roleplay.

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