Question about RP and Factions situation

[Sabru]

The Recruit ID is only used when setting up a ship or character, as ships using a recruit ID are heavily restricted and do not exist in RP.

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[US|]

Thanks for your help. I didn't fully understand how that works. Would this freelancer IFF be permanent regardless of which places I visit and what work I do?

Yes, your IFF will stay as it is unless you /droprep it. As RP goes, identify other pilots with their IFF and not their ID. They should do the same. Hope it's helpful!

- Michael Trenton (Tenspot68)

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[SummerMcLovin]

While they might initially treat you as LPI because of your IFF, when questioned you could "show them your ID card" that you are simply a civilian/Freelancer. Since he knows you are FL ID, hopefully he'd be willing to go along with the fact that it was a mistake and you can either be let off with a warning, small fine and/or made to dock and fix it before flying through Rheinland.

Flying with hostile transponders could be taken as a crime in the houses so with enough talking about it (which seems to have went on) you are a viable target, but it can be RPed as a non-hostile encounter as above. Hopefully it can go a bit better next time, and you know how to fix it anyway.

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Kingdom of Bretonia
Colonial Republic
Independent Miners Guild
Ex-Admin

[Laura C.]

Others probably already explained you enough what was wrong (at your IFF side) but as the person who "threatened" you (not really) I should drop few words too.

You know where to find rules obviously, so I hope you noticed this one too:

1.3 Every player must have one ID equipped on their ship. Actual ID items do not exist in roleplay and players must be treated based on their IFF, however, every player should follow the restrictions and allowances listed in their ID.

So inRP as a character - wachmann of Rheinland Federal Police, I don´t see your freelancer ID, I know it only as a player. As a character I see only your IFF, and after this rule was changed to current version, IFF generally says who you are. So if you want to be treated like Freelancer, get yourself Freelancer IFF. It is not hard and after you will have it, it will stay locked on your ship. If you need more help with setting up IFF, feel free to ask.

Also, diplomacy. As was said, wiki is outdated. But Liberty police is not listed on Rheinland police diplomacy sheet simply because these two factions should never meet each other. LPI is not allowed to leave Liberty, RFP is not allowed to leave Rheinland. So your assumption

Seeing that my IFF, Liberty Police, appears nowhere on the RFP diplomacy chart, it is clear this person is threatening on no grounds whatsoever. (An absence of presence on a diplomacy chart would mean neutral diplomacy at least, I think I can safely presume)
http://discoverygc.com/wiki/Rheinland_Fe...#Diplomacy

was wrong. Liberty and Rheinland are still at war, so Liberty lawful in Rheinland (and vice versa) will be treated with unfriendly or even hostile attitude. I had right to order you to leave Rheinland and attack if you would not comply. Despite that I let you go after I explained you the IFF problem which you need to fix. Trust me that some players would be much more trigger happy than me. I chose the mildest solution possible from various I had - Summer summed them up clearly

Since he knows you are FL ID, hopefully he'd be willing to go along with the fact that it was a mistake and you can either be let off with a warning, small fine and/or made to dock and fix it before flying through Rheinland.

As for threatening you mentioned - seriously, you probably have to experience real threatening, this was just little severe because inRP you were suspicious. I even checked again the log if I was so harsh or not, because at first moment I was like "wut, me, threatening?"

[28.11.2013 23:49:38] RFP|Wach.Laura.Carsten.: Another ship with police IFF? what is this...
[28.11.2013 23:50:10] Scias: it only means police have good reputation with us
[28.11.2013 23:50:20] RFP|Wach.Laura.Carsten.: Well, if you have IFF you dont want, you have to dock and fix that with station personel, using /droprep command
[28.11.2013 23:50:23] Panadol: oh, exactly!
[28.11.2013 23:50:25] RFP|Wach.Laura.Carsten.: But it cost some money.
[28.11.2013 23:50:28] Scias: we're freelancers, not ID'd as police
[28.11.2013 23:50:40] Scias: i don't want a bad reputation
[28.11.2013 23:50:50] RFP|Wach.Laura.Carsten.: No. If you are transmitting Liberty police IFF, it means you work for them.
[28.11.2013 23:50:58] RFP|Wach.Laura.Carsten.: And I can have right to consider you as enemy.
[28.11.2013 23:51:06] Scias: it only means high rep with police
[28.11.2013 23:51:09] Scias: not working for them
[28.11.2013 23:51:11] Panadol: i just starting game
[28.11.2013 23:51:15] RFP|Wach.Laura.Carsten.: So you should fix it as soon as possible if you want fly in Rheinland.
[28.11.2013 23:51:27] Panadol: and just exploring
[28.11.2013 23:51:30] Scias: rheinland are fine with me
[28.11.2013 23:51:36] Scias: freelancers work for themselves
[28.11.2013 23:51:57] Panadol: i cannot even buy police id, cause i need a lot of reputation
[28.11.2013 23:52:06] RFP|Wach.Laura.Carsten.: Dont teach me pilot. I explained you the problem. You should fix it or you can get into problems.
[28.11.2013 23:52:16] Panadol: ok
[28.11.2013 23:52:29] Panadol: thanks
[28.11.2013 23:52:43] RFP|Wach.Laura.Carsten.: Gut. You may continue.
[28.11.2013 23:52:47] Scias: no problem

Seriously, this is threatening and even with opening fire? Where? Main problems was that you started to talk oorp (even without using // signs) while I was trying to keep the conversation inRP, yet still tell you what is problem and how to fix it. So I cut your explanations who freelancers are because it was pointless. Me as well as my char know who freelancers are. But when your ship is transmitting LPI IFF, you will be treated as such. I wanted to motivate you to fix this problems before you meet somebody else who will show you how real threatening and then firing for "no reason" looks like.

I hope everything is clear now, fix your IFF and enjoy the game

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On a ragebreak. Or ragequit. Time will tell.

[SummerMcLovin]

Well you should have kept the ooRP stuff about IDs, /droprep etc. to PMs instead of doing it in local, but other than that, you handled it in a very considerate way Laura.

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Kingdom of Bretonia
Colonial Republic
Independent Miners Guild
Ex-Admin

[Scias]

In light of the rules and the answers to the questions I am no longer intending to report you Laura. I also didn't want your identity revealed without your consent. My attention has shifted to the actual rules of this server instead, as they are consistent with your actions, yet inconsistent with my opinion of what the Freelancer game is about. I should be clear that whenever I used the word "threat", I did so describing the situation within a context of roleplay. Given my (incomplete) understanding of the rules at the time, I used the word "threat" in order to describe a situation where somebody tells me to do something, stating that the non-compliance would result in said person opening fire. However my understanding at the time was that this "threat" may be against the rules even within the context of roleplay. It has since been demonstrated not to be, but it is the reason for this question topic.

As I've said I believe this whole system is nonsensical, confusing, unnecessary, biased against freelancers (freelancer should be the default position of a player, without paying 1 million), is inconsistent with the existing diplomacy system(Disco has not scripted or changed the existing system to line up with the new 'RP' system) and destroys the authenticity of this part of the game. I would understand if nobody wants to respond to my criticism of this new diplomacy system here. I would appreciate it if you did, but if not I will post another complaint thread as comprehensively as possible.

In the meantime I haven't even logged back in to the game since this incident. It seems fussy but this has completely destroyed the game for me. Put simply, the fact that I was in Rheinland, having extreme green status with all of Rheinland's lawful factions, doing missions with them repeatedly, and after all that a Rheinland member tells me that I need to change my diplomacy otherwise they will open fire, should hopefully make sense to you why I think this ruleset(not the player, they were only following the ruleset) is completely illogical and inconsistent. And this all happened because one 3rd party (Liberty Police) happened to tag my ship, not necessarily with my permission, making players wrongly presume that I work for them.

Sorry, but messing up my diplomacy, paying 1 million unnecessarily, causing my HUD colour display system to become inaccurate, causing factions who I am supposed to be friendly with to have a different standpoint with me for no reason other than the fact I typed a command into the game console, raises more problems than it solves. You can call this roleplaying if you like, but from any other standpoint it is actually called hacks. Roleplaying is much more effective when the environment has some kind of consistency (such as a faction you are green with being allied/friendly with you for example, without issuing diplomacy-based demands)

I know it is easy to say "join another server then" but since this is the only mass populated server, I was hoping to experience the game again after many years hiatus. I have owned Freelancer since late 2003 and after all these years it was exciting to see that the game was back in the form of Discovery, and I appreciate how Discovery has reopened the door to Freelancer fans and I was excited to see any new modded content. I fully support the idea of expanding the game with new content, but in no way do I understand or support the decision to change the spirit of the game in such a way as to have two inconsistent faction systems, the one for NPCs and bases, and the one for players. Two diplomacy systems that are completely inconsistent with each other. As of yet it makes no sense to me and I'd appreciate it if somebody could explain how it does.


Edit:

Seriously, this is threatening and even with opening fire? Where? Main problems was that you started to talk oorp (even without using // signs) while I was trying to keep the conversation inRP

The implication that you would open fire was clear. You said "You should fix it or you can get into problems.". I could not think of any potential problems other than you personally opening fire, given the fact that I had previously interacted with HUNDREDS of Rheinland members without them coming close to demanding these things of me or showing any hostility, and the fact that my diplomacy with them was almost as high as it could be. As for roleplaying, I was explaining to you how the tag works, you should know that this tag has no relation to who I choose to work with. I know in the server rules it does, but in reality it doesn't, and is... for want of a better word... a bug in the server. I understand you were behaving in the way the server rules suggest, but my complaint here is about those server rules themselves, not your behavior.

If you really wanted to roleplay, perhaps you could have taken a brief look at the several Rheinland bases/ships that were present and not treating me with any suspicion, let alone hostility, and maybe ask yourself why the rest of your faction seem to view me as an ally, instead of recommending that I dock with a station I'm apparently at war with from your viewpoint. Again, I am not blaming you as you were following the server rules, but I am using you to expose this completely illogical system they seem to have set up on this server. Sure you can say that other players from your faction would be more ruthless, but that would only further expose how messed up the rules of this server are. Surely it would make more sense if the faction I am allied with treated me as an ally. Seriously, the 'diplomacy by IFF tag' method simply makes no sense.

Perhaps if I had a full understanding of the rules at the time (apologies for not), I could have roleplayed within this context and responded to you with "There seems to be a misunderstanding, those liberty Police tagged my ship without my permission". Because really, that's the only way it could have happened. I'm sure this happens frequently, as imo you can't expect every new player to read every word of the rules, given that they usually do their best to be well behaved, and play the game as it was intended to be played, even including roleplay. But this new ruleset will constantly catch new players out, and make them vulnerable to spontaneous attacks when all they really wanted to do was explore the universe.

[Laura C.]

Uff... With all respect to your opinion, honestly it is hard to say something because you seems to be little oversensitive. If this little problem (and really, it is tiny problem, there is more a lot biggers which you will sooner or later discover) "destroys authenticity/spirit of the game" (I disagree personally, by the way) and "destroyed the game for you", than this server probably really isn´t for you. Because how will you then react when you for example meet players who will shoot you with lame reasons, or trolls? We have those here too.

Also

Sorry, but messing up my diplomacy, paying 1 million unnecessarily, causing my HUD colour display system to become inaccurate, causing factions who I am supposed to be friendly with to have a different standpoint with me for no reason other than the fact I typed a command into the game console, raises more problems than it solves. You can call this roleplaying if you like, but from any other standpoint it is actually called hacks.

erm, since when allowed server commands are hacks? It is game mechanic and this command was set up exactly to solve situations like these. Your drop will be lowered only partially, you will be still green to those which you used /droprep

Anyway, you probably don´t understand how it works, very likely because you missed /restart commands. So, let´s start from the beginning.

You want to create new character. You put name and create it. At this moment, you decide who this character will be. LPI member, Bretonia Navy member, Liberty Rogue or just Freelancer...and so on. There is restart for almost every faction, you can see them if you type /showrestarts command. For freelancer, there is even several command from which you choose where you want to start (Freelancer Ga/Li/Rh for start in houses, FreelancerBw for start in Border worlds). Then you use FOR FREE this restart command. This will for a) give you fully equipped civilian shuttle and for b) makes your IFF Freelancer and setup a starting rep sheet

And then, it is up to you. If you dont change IFF, it will stay, no matter if you will be in very good rep with other factions. Problem solved, no need to pay for /droprep command in future.

If you miss this, or for some reason don´t want to use /restart commands, you have to obtain Freelancer IFF yourself via so called double bribe on Freelancer stations (I think only the one in Coronado is offering this). But bribes cost money (around a million too in total).

Anyway, now you finished ooRP setup of your character and can start playing and RPing itself.

So, you missed this and your IFF is badly set up? It happens. But why is such a big deal to use /droprep command and fix it? Million credits is not small money for beginner, that is true, but if you do missions, it doesn´t take so much time. And you need to do this fix only once. Just keep and eye for your rep sheet with who you have fully or almost fully green rep. Then dont take missions for them until you have Freelancer IFF.

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On a ragebreak. Or ragequit. Time will tell.

[Scias]

Thanks for your help (sorry I have only just edited my post).

Restart commands are something I've never heard of and it seemed like it was never made clear upon joining the server.

Those commands have been called hacks since they change your diplomacy of a faction in the game simply through a command which alters game data which was only intended to be altered via in-game actions.

Yes I did decide when I created my character that it would be a freelancer, and ever since creating that character I have behaved as such, working for various people, and not once accepting the official employed status of the Liberty Police or any other faction. Should they tag my ship without my explicit permission, then I am not accountable for their mistake, certainly not 1million accountable.

You are correct that I didn't understand how this works, and apologies for being ignorant of many commands and playing the game in a classic fashion. But what I do understand is how roleplay works. And docking with a space station I am currently at war with, wouldn't make sense in my current understanding of how roleplaying works. I know you were trying to help me solve my problem, but in doing so you actually broke roleplay yourself by suggesting I dock with this "enemy" station. This is entirely the fault of the server rules you were following, not your fault.

Being over-sensitive is irrelevant. There either is an explanation or there isn't.

[Scias]

I am trying what Michael Trenton said about bribing and /droprep in Coronado. After getting one bribe, I realize thet my rep is only just in the green, and needs more in order to out-rep about 15 other factions. I don't have enough money to drop all 15 of those factions, and the missions are all for factions other than Freelancer, meaning doing them might increase the problem of having too much rep with them. Any advice? The missions here are also pretty difficult for my level. I suppose I could try working until I have enough money to drop 15 times.

[Scias]

So I can't find any way to afford the required number of dropreps other than to do missions for several hours. After travelling from hamburg all the way to coronado, I find that I could only bribe once, and after spending that 500k, I need to droprep 15 times. I have around 2 million and after each mission it is raising by about 100k at a time. If anyone has a faster way of doing this let me know.