Information about upcoming Zoner changes

[Marc Shadow]

You talk about polls and Anti Zoner threads that surface the forums from time to time.I seriously doubt if all the players who had commented in there are still playing actively in the forum.

I suggest to keep a poll,and I say it again and again.Since this issue has reached the limelight to the active part of the community that still play the game,make them vote and lets see if anything has changed.Decide the future of these ships based on the majority.

If people want these ships to be replaced,I am wrong here and I apologise for my selfness I showed here.It is all because I have quite some zoner ships and friends that do RP with Zoner ships.

But if majority want it to remain as such,dont ever attempt anything at the shipline.I hope we can come to a conclusion on this issue.It is getting way overhead and off track.

Also,keep the poll,if there is any idea of making one,just 2 optioned so that there wont be confusion as that happened with the last one.

I'm not sure if you understand my Opinion. I play Disco since 2008 and my first ID was a Zoner ID. Meanwhile i have some Zoner ships and also a nephy. If the changes really coming, was my time my blood and my sweat to get all the stuff for nothing.
I realy hope that we can find a solution!

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[Sath]

You talk about polls and Anti Zoner threads that surface the forums from time to time.I seriously doubt if all the players who had commented in there are still playing actively in the forum.

I suggest to keep a poll,and I say it again and again.Since this issue has reached the limelight to the active part of the community that still play the game,make them vote and lets see if anything has changed.Decide the future of these ships based on the majority.

If people want these ships to be replaced,I am wrong here and I apologise for my selfness I showed here.It is all because I have quite some zoner ships and friends that do RP with Zoner ships.

But if majority want it to remain as such,dont ever attempt anything at the shipline.I hope we can come to a conclusion on this issue.It is getting way overhead and off track.

Also,keep the poll,if there is any idea of making one,just 2 optioned so that there wont be confusion as that happened with the last one.

I'm not sure if you understand my Opinion. I play Disco since 2008 and my first ID was a Zoner ID. Meanwhile i have some Zoner ships and also a nephy. If the changes really coming, was my time my blood and my sweat to get all the stuff for nothing.
I realy hope that we can find a solution!

Chill,I have 2 Nephilims and I am cool as crap.

As they said "put up with it"

[Highland Laddie]

Zoners who are only Zoners because of being able to fly the Nephilim and Aquillon, and will leave or stop playing Zoners if they get changed are probably not the Zoners the server will miss.

[Keioff Xanjer]

I just recently started playing and the largest combat-vessel I've owned is a gunboat, so I can't really comment on the pvp-balance.
That being said, I have 2 pleas:

1. Please don't change the function/description of the Nephilim too much.

The Zoners who travel into the unknown of deep space trust these ships to sustain them during long explorations that are expected to take several generations, and thus outfit the ships to be capable of light industry and hydroponic food production during the voyage. The Nephilim is also capable of making planetfall and establishing a fully autonomous colony.

Our entire company-RP is based on deep-space exploration and thus it would be devastating for us.

2. Please keep the model in some form.
Imo (and the friends I've discussed this with) it looks perfectly like an exploration-vessel with those 'garden-domes' on each side and the 'sun-deck' on the front. Ship Picture

Suggestions:
Remove some hardpoints from the ships instead of changing them entirely.
Make it inRP illegal for Zoner-caps to enter house-space at all

I only suggest this because I don't feel that one should 'complain' about ANYTHING if you don't suggest SOME solution. There are probably better and smarter ones.

Anyway, I feel the dev's should do what they see as the best solution for the community.. My logic tells me they must be doing something right since the game is alive after all these years.
I'll just say thank you for the work you put in either way.

With Gratitude
- Keioff Xanjer

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Keioff Xanjer, Diplomatic Advisor - HoPR, HM&S / HoX

[Enkidu]

as i said - the recent poll made us adjust our initial plans - and leave the cruisers and destroyers to the zoners. if you say that this is nothing - fine -

however if you refer to "no change at all" - no, why? - there are plenty of voters who voted for some kind of change - and aside from the poll - we have plenty of threads that called "foul" on zoners in the past years. should we ignore them, too - just cause ppl get upset cause change actually becomes immanent?

about the lore of the ships

we ( me included ) have tried to justify them over and over and over. - but the fact is - their existence makes little sense. now you may say "but look at faction Y, Z, B etc. their shipline makes no sense either!!!" and i say "well done, you are right - and eventually that might change, too - but current change concerns the zoners, you have to start somewhere - and as it was said, we start with the most prominent problem... and hell yea - it is a problem."

here is the original lore by the creators of the zoner ships when they were FIRST introduced to the dev team:

- conference: VIP AT mk2. freighter class with GB armor and minimal active defense ( weapons ) - a ship to "get the hell out of trouble" - but not to "make trouble"

- fearless: armored small transport, small battletransport for edgeworld freeport supply, cruiser armor, minimal active defense ( weapons )

- corvo: research ship for RPers who want to RP a mid sized ship with minimal crew. good scanners and research equipment, average protection and minimal active defense ( weapons )

- aquillon: we were all a bit surprised when igiss moved it from IMG to zoners at the time and had no idea what to do about it. so it became the only "real" zoner warship

- nephilim: battleship class colony ship. few weapons but huge hitpoints - hence it came with the most hitpoints ( up to .87 - now the marduk has more ) a ship that survives. however in the initial concept it kept its 12 turrets to be able to act as a brutal battering ram on request by the Asgard Warriors.

all in all - the zoner ships all revolve around good hitpoints and minimal defense. also - like the original order Geb, they were meant to be mostly useless in terms of trading and pvp - making them naturally rare because most ppl cannot deal with RP only ships that do not make them money or blue messages.

They make no sense. Yes. But they are an established lack of sense.


I believe you would have got exactly what you wanted Jinx if you just started a dialogue with the Phoenix, TAZ and OSI leaders first; hell, all the zoners actually. Persuading people of your intentions before making the final implementation committal is a much more honourable, democratic, agreeable method of proceeding about the process.

I have never, ever, played a Zoner cap. This is because the Zoner group I am a member of does not have the shipyards to field Zoner capitals. But Phoenix and TAZ? Well, they do. Thus a degree of Rp rights lie with them.


This is older members taking on the roles of wizened sages, suggesting that all us young upstarts "cannot see the bigger picture". If you have a join date post 2010 you clearly do not understand how this server operates, how the fluid, Zoner roleplay that changes from week to week operates, because you lack a vintage label.

Do what is healthy for the mod, and for the Zoners you have nursed, Jinx. As aforementioned in this thread.

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THE SYNDIC LEAGUES
(A co-operative of Rheinland's Shipping Unions, retired from a life of piracy.)

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[Lythrilux]

You can RP colony ships without them being caps btw.

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[Enkidu]

You can RP colony ships without them being caps btw.

You sure can. My debate topic comes from the inherent lack of democracy, instead replaced by a junta of dev Skype contacts.

Edit: Surely official factions are there for something, right, other than FR5's and bounty board creation? I state this as an unofficial Zoner. Consult first, so preceding roleplay alterations can be initiated. Consult, then act. That order.

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THE SYNDIC LEAGUES
(A co-operative of Rheinland's Shipping Unions, retired from a life of piracy.)

Information | Recruitment | Message Dump |
Feedback | Diplomatic channel

(Links pending redevelopment).

[Shagohad]

Would the Jinkusu be able to fend off a cruiser at least? You mention these things would be durable and have a long range, so I'd imagine they'd have adequate fire to fend off something a little bigger than a gunboat.

We have to remember that line between roleplay and the playerbase. We want to kill things. A lot of people deny this drive for PVP, but most of the time Connecticut has a higher population than any other system.

Zoners getting cocky about being neutral doesn't sound like roleplay. Zoners would know space is a dangerous place and would arm their vessels to plan for the craziest of stuff with them being on the fringe and all.

If you do the transports, at least make them somewhat tough. Armor and whatnot is awesome, but you just don't have the speed to run away in time. House transports are lightly armed because people are nearby.

In space, no one can hear you "Neutral!"

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"THE HULL HAS BEEN BREACHED AND THE SCIENCE IS LEAKING OUT!"

[Spud]

Ok reading back since last I posted, it seems a lot of people want the old Nephy because their RP is based on it, because its a nice mobile Freeport and stuff. Now after looking at the models I actually think I'd like that biodome ship too, but not for fighting.

So...

How about you keep the old Nephy model, just make it a "Battleship" that is slower than the rest (like 40 impulse, no thrust, and like 150 cruise speed), has larger cargo, above average hull strength, and very crappy guns. Not transport crappy, but fewer mounting points than most battleships.

Maybe also change the model a bit to look like the mid-thing between a station and a ship. Like a mobile city. Bigger, bulkier, not able to enter a trade lane. Maybe all zoner ships should be really crappy to fly into tradelanes, cause they are built for purposes in space where there are no tradelanes.

If wanna keep the present Nephy as a SRP or faction flagship, sure why not. It just feels awkward to see biodomes on a ship that is specifically intended for battle.

The new Nephy model that Jinx made actually also looks good. I see no reason why that shouldn't be made into an additional ship.

But for the love of god, stop yelling and insulting everyone people.

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[E.T.]

you sure can. My debate topic comes from the inherent lack of democracy, instead replaced by a junta of dev Skype contacts.

Edit: Surely official factions are there for something, right, other than FR5's and bounty board creation? I state this as an unofficial Zoner. Consult first, so preceding roleplay alterations can be initiated. Consult, then act. That order.

I must defend jinx here, he told redeclipse and me to fight more for the zoner ships. I told so in taz chat for doc, mj and the others. And red, well last comment of him i remember was that they didn't need caps but had order to defend them. While then in taz chat i was upset for one of the taz his responses of making it only faction toys with also a limited view of za within his eyes. Sadly none listened then, but only reacts now when their own decisions and even votes turned out different then they wanted. Devs have to think of a group, not a faction or to favour individuals. Same with unique ships they should contribute something in the game instead being used by people to show of stuff they have what others cannot. Mistakes people make, even admins and devs are human. But don't forget you and i in the past have all contributed to this decision. Some worked towards it others against.

The amount of zoner ships i can simply explain.. Many just like its designs it looks cool and well you can go everywhere.. Only restrictions you face are the shooting in defense only and to assist other zoners only to help them defend themselves. But the ships are in astroid fields and balance wise even underpowered against several other ships. See for example the new osprey. Its size was smaller and idea was as zoner ship only. I am not mentioning names, but one of the devs found that it should be buffed in size. So it was done, because zoners should not have op ships. And in a way that's TRUE, but zoners will always inflict first damage. So if you want to balance that you should give it more weapons to mount with a fitting powercore. Or for example some more hull. Problem then is the armor upgrades. But i must say it has all its pro's and con's.

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