Zoners only have something to lose because they were given things in the first place.
Like a bunch of ships, some of which were caps, that nobody could fit in anywhere else, looked cool, and people went "why not?". The lore surrounding Zoner neutrality was, last I checked, based on being useful to all the conflicting parties, so those parties had more to lose than gain by becoming hostile.
Zoners, and other factions as well, have unfortunately treated their given neutrality as a right, not a privilege. There are exceptions but when you've a fallback position of a fleet of battleships capable of matching a house power, belonging to a faction of folks who just wanted to live peacefully where nobody would bother them, why would you not use them?
And giving the Zoners that position was a mistake. Taking it away is a good move.
People have become accustomed to Zoners acting in such a manner, and the Zoner players have become used to being able to do so, perhaps to the point where the majority do not remember a time without battleships. But even then, this has always been tried; the AW, an old Zoner faction, used to use an Outcast Ranseur while claiming to be neutral to the Corsairs. The only thing stopping the Corsairs from acting on it, was the fact that at the time, they could not easily match this level of firepower (they had to use the Osiris, because the Legate did not exist). When the Corsairs did try to act on it, the Zoners fought back; within their rights to be sure, but it should not have been within their capability.
Zoners should not have this firepower. You have the freedom that other factions lack, and very few people go out of their way to shoot you. I have lost count of the amount of Zoner battleships that I've seen floating around Liberty, occassionally even declaring their own little localised no fire zone right outside a base like West Point. Battleships make people think they are big men - naval factions have enough of a hard time policing their own "I've got a bigger ship than you so Im a higher rank" breed of independent player to be spending time dealing with odd Zoner rubbish floating about.
(02-28-2014, 09:26 AM)McNeo Wrote: Zoners only have something to lose because they were given things in the first place.
Like a bunch of ships, some of which were caps, that nobody could fit in anywhere else, looked cool, and people went "why not?". The lore surrounding Zoner neutrality was, last I checked, based on being useful to all the conflicting parties, so those parties had more to lose than gain by becoming hostile.
Zoners, and other factions as well, have unfortunately treated their given neutrality as a right, not a privilege. There are exceptions but when you've a fallback position of a fleet of battleships capable of matching a house power, belonging to a faction of folks who just wanted to live peacefully where nobody would bother them, why would you not use them?
And giving the Zoners that position was a mistake. Taking it away is a good move.
People have become accustomed to Zoners acting in such a manner, and the Zoner players have become used to being able to do so, perhaps to the point where the majority do not remember a time without battleships. But even then, this has always been tried; the AW, an old Zoner faction, used to use an Outcast Ranseur while claiming to be neutral to the Corsairs. The only thing stopping the Corsairs from acting on it, was the fact that at the time, they could not easily match this level of firepower (they had to use the Osiris, because the Legate did not exist). When the Corsairs did try to act on it, the Zoners fought back; within their rights to be sure, but it should not have been within their capability.
Zoners should not have this firepower. You have the freedom that other factions lack, and very few people go out of their way to shoot you. I have lost count of the amount of Zoner battleships that I've seen floating around Liberty, occassionally even declaring their own little localised no fire zone right outside a base like West Point. Battleships make people think they are big men - naval factions have enough of a hard time policing their own "I've got a bigger ship than you so Im a higher rank" breed of independent player to be spending time dealing with odd Zoner rubbish floating about.
Well that is your opinion. Would you consider seeing it from zoner side? Would you consider a change that can maintain a status quo ? Allow Zoners to keep their capital ships but keep the lolwutry in check?
And those zoners cap supporters, would do you consider his views? Would you be willing to sacrifice something as to not allow the misuse of zoner caps?
(02-28-2014, 08:47 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: Ask Gytrash to stop posting threads. You might need a miracle.
It swings both ways.
Gytrash is posting these threads because he has got a reason too. The Devs should know this and the reason behind him posting threads like this. Are they taking steps to consider their actions?
And Gytrash should stop back relax a bit. Cool down. Let reason prevail before it gets out of hand. He should ask himself by posting threads like this, is it constructive or merely a hate rant? Will posting threads like this actually make a difference or just piss people off.
Like i said before both sides should evaluate themselves.
in other words : PUT YOURSELF IN THE OTHER PERSONS SHOES !!!!!
Most of the ranters have actually left the discussion by now - you don't need to worry so much.
THE SYNDIC LEAGUES
(A co-operative of Rheinland's Shipping Unions, retired from a life of piracy.)
(02-28-2014, 11:12 AM)Scumbag Wrote: Ask yourself: Why the hate? Is it really hate?
I just recently joined, so I don't know the story behind this.
But with fresh and objective eyes:
Yes, it does really look like hate. Or disdain at the very least.
There are so many condescending remarks that it hurts.
And the 'schadenfrau' is very obvious in so many comments.
I mean, come on.. All those remarks about Zoner tears, etc.? That's just throwing fuel on the fire and some people seem to enjoy this a bit much.
I cannot say how the lore have been changed, but if people really wanted more RP, then why not start by insta-banning everyone with a ridiculous name?
That is SO immersion-breaking.
(Even official guys are called things like XX.Salad and such. I don't mind the guys and actually find the names funny, my point is related to the RP-aspect)
It's the disdain you have for those who feel entitled, feel superior, feel they don't need to folow the same rules as the rest of us, think they can lie to you and get away with it, you get the point. It's been acumulated over years so that's why it's so bad. Few people take generic zoners seriously these days.
It's just that, zoner strength was overestimated. Devs took away the battleship because of those who used it as a reason for justifying strength. A vicious circle.
I meant strength of independence, as in: Ensuring the security of their own stations/planets and being able to defend themselves on voyages, so they don't get bullied into submission.
Not as in: Strength do do as they will, where they wan't and dominate the political situation like some superpower.
I can understand that this has been misused over and over again and that the community is pretty strained due to that fact.
I just see it as a better solution to punish the guilty parties than the whole faction.
But I can't stress enough: I'm new to the lore and community.
The solution should be the one most fit for the veterans of the communtiy in my opinion.
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