(03-03-2014, 11:14 AM)Trogdor Wrote: OSI (Gytrash aside - not sure if he's still associated with them) probably would prefer the caps go away, so they can shift the focus of the Zoners to be more hospitable towards trading. I.e. removing all possibility that their trading may be disrupted by conflict.
The TAZ (Doc aside) have, from what I've seen, been pretty arrogant when it comes to indies and seem to want the caps all to themselves...
And I don't think anyone from Phoenix has even voiced an opinion on the matter in any of these threads. If they have, I haven't seen it.
I can tell you that all three official factions are opposing this change, and also including non officials such as the commonwealth and even ... ZA. None of the opinion and comments posted was really taken through by the devs and work is currently focusing on pushing the lore through so not much reply from the factions at the moment.
Then that is a welcome surprise. It's hard to keep track of things when it gets spread out all over the forum. Thanks for that.
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(03-03-2014, 10:02 PM)Trogdor Wrote:
(03-03-2014, 01:22 PM)Nexus Ark Wrote:
(03-03-2014, 11:14 AM)Trogdor Wrote: OSI (Gytrash aside - not sure if he's still associated with them) probably would prefer the caps go away, so they can shift the focus of the Zoners to be more hospitable towards trading. I.e. removing all possibility that their trading may be disrupted by conflict.
The TAZ (Doc aside) have, from what I've seen, been pretty arrogant when it comes to indies and seem to want the caps all to themselves...
And I don't think anyone from Phoenix has even voiced an opinion on the matter in any of these threads. If they have, I haven't seen it.
I can tell you that all three official factions are opposing this change, and also including non officials such as the commonwealth and even ... ZA. None of the opinion and comments posted was really taken through by the devs and work is currently focusing on pushing the lore through so not much reply from the factions at the moment.
Then that is a welcome surprise. It's hard to keep track of things when it gets spread out all over the forum. Thanks for that.
I've plenty voiced my opinion on this matter. TAZ doesn't want to be arrogant and keep all the caps for themselves, we just don't want non Zoners or indies getting ahold of equipment they will abuse.
(03-03-2014, 11:14 AM)Trogdor Wrote: Coin can you please stop attacking Jinx and instead focus on helping us convince the devs this is a bad idea? Thanks. @_@
Jinx has said that such dialogues with the OFs were attempted, but they were either silent on the issue or spoke out in favor of cap removal.
OSI (Gytrash aside - not sure if he's still associated with them) probably would prefer the caps go away, so they can shift the focus of the Zoners to be more hospitable towards trading. I.e. removing all possibility that their trading may be disrupted by conflict.
The TAZ (Doc aside) have, from what I've seen, been pretty arrogant when it comes to indies and seem to want the caps all to themselves...
And I don't think anyone from Phoenix has even voiced an opinion on the matter in any of these threads. If they have, I haven't seen it.
I really have to question whether our OFs are looking out for the faction as a whole, as an OF is supposed to, or trying to steer the devs into molding the Zoners to suit their own interests.
so it's ok for jinx to post ad hominem attacks on me, but if i respond politely with a "you seem to have chosen an unusual, time-expensive and deeply unpopular choice (here is your opportunity to explain and exonerate yourself)" post then im not helping? Wait up trogdor, that's not my train, and I'm not riding the 'save the caps train'. I'm on the 'no retcons without extensive dialogue train'. If i were zoners, yes, i probably would like to see indy zonercaps get their wings clipped - but thats not to say that they wanted to change their ships into a transport.
if it is a matter of a name change, then all that needed to be done was say 'the infocard is changing'
if the stats are staying the same then there is absolutely no point in changing the ships - they will still pew just as well
if this is a lore thing, then 1. other factions need to have their caps stripped AT THE SAME TIME 2. the dev team needs to explain why this is so urgent that it has to be done now-now-now, without the courtesy of community opinion being allowed to evolve and adapt.
my stance is that the way that this has been conducted is an imperious face-slapping. this isn't a cruise-drain or a tractorbeam-limit, but a deletion. if someone tells me that my firefly is going to be changed into a bwt, but the stats will be the same, then i'll be "meh". but this isn't a like for like exchange that retains the backstory, this is a retcon, meaning that those ships never existed, and all the fun times that were had have been consigned to the trash.
Igiss Wrote: Cos it's fun to blame me for Zoner caps
hey, im just reporting what he said over fbk messenger. so, now that you've picked up on the last part, how about what i said in the middle part, or maybe even the beginning part?
(03-01-2014, 01:39 PM)Garrett Jax Wrote: Gytrash, I have told you what you could do to improve your chances of keeping your Zoner caps. In fact, I've asked the Zoner leaders to provide links to any lore in the past years connected with those ships that would justify keeping them.
That was four days ago, and I have received almost nothing. I'm beginning to wonder if there is any lore justification at all. I'm trying to find some reason to advocate for you, but instead of giving me something to work with, you insist on arguing non stop in thread after pointless thread. By doing so, you have utterly destroyed any sympathy I have for the Zoners.
I will encourage you one last time to stop ranting on the forums about it and take mature productive steps that I've already advised you to take. Instead of telling us how removing Zoner caps will destroy your lore, show us. Because, as of this moment, I see no lore to be ruined. And I don't mean the retconned version of lore you are currently working on. I'm talking about past lore that will be irreparably harmed by the removal of these ships. Give the Devs something to consider. Give the Admins something to advocate for. Enough of these rants on the forums. I told you already they were pointless and self defeating.
Garret are you actually saying that you expected the current Zoner leaders to review the past....five to seven years or forum history and get back with you in four days?
News flash, buddy, people have lives outside of Disco. On top of that, it is extremely difficult to keep track of every bit of lore produced on these forums and in the game.
You see no lore because you are not looking for it. The fact that you're not looking for it and the fact that you expected the Zoner leaders to produce an exhaustive list in such a short time span clearly shows you have no intention of advocating for the Zoner players. You have a majority of Zoner players who don't want their faction changed, yet you've ignored them and instead gone with what you want. Exactly how is that advocating for them?
When I was still active and leading OSI or acting as the 2iC we tried numerous times to work with the dev team to correct the lore holes regarding the capital ships (and other things). Guess what? Dev team either ignored us or told us that it was an extremely low priority and chances of them implementing it were nill. Jinx was part of that team.
Why in the heck would we waste our time when the Dev team basically told us it was a waste of our time?
You want to know what is going to happen? Regardless of what the Zoner factions and player produce - the Dev team is going to do what they want. Always have. So all you're doing is asking a section of your player base to waste their time leading them to believe that it might change the outcome.
Through no fault of their own? They've had plenty of time to search through their threads now (there's a function for that, imagine that) and they've squandered it all whining and moaning and offering nothing in return besides BUT WE DON'T LIKE THE CHANGES and WHY HAVEN'T YOU REMOVED X FACTIONS BATTLESHIPS YET.
Not only that, several people have stated they couldn't care less about the RP behind the ship itself, and just want the ship.
No one is doing anything for their 'lore' to keep the ship. It's been 9? days now, and you continue to say BUT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME.
Stop crying about the change, and go and find your threads if it's that goddamn important to you. But judging by how you're stalling and have had over 180 hours to post some big thread about it, none of you (Besides Gytrash who has just made your case worse) have done so, nor intend to.
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