The Truth about Zoners

[Garrett Jax]

The Zoners will not be losing their caps anytime soon. The Admins voted against the change. It may be pursued again sometime, however the idea has been shelved for now.

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[SnakThree]

Then give all unlawfuls capital ships ffs.

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[Lythrilux]

The Zoners will not be losing their caps anytime soon. The Admins voted against the change. It may be pursued again sometime, however the idea has been shelved for now.

What about any ID changes?

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[Garrett Jax]

There has been much discussion on the subject of caps. In my opinion, Zoners should never have received them. However, the fact is, they did. And, they have had them for a long time too.

I think we need to decide which way we want to go. Either remove caps from all factions that don't have the lore justification for them, or provide them for everyone, or just leave things as they are. This is a tough call and not one we will make without further discussion.

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[WesternPeregrine]

Hear, hear!

I agree with what Thyrzul wrote. The only issue that concerns me is, that through a generic Zoner ID like he describes too many different player factions emerge while at the same time vanilla house corporate factions might become neglected.

How could this be solved then?

Zoners would still not be allowed to trade in the houses. If too many arise, they will compete over the same resources.

I feel that the house corporate factions problems are not related to the Zoner question, and shouldn't try to mix a solution for the two distinct problems.
Unless the Houses pass laws against zoner presence inside their territories (due to paranoia or something), zoner shouldn't be banned from house trading. Inrp they are th entity which passes essential supplies produced inhouse to the border worlds, which sustain the freelancer/zoner populations, and other outlawed groups who can't access the house markets.

If anyone feels that house corporations have problems, perhaps there should be a discussion on how to improve them, and not how to nerf zoner groups in retaliation.

@Thryzul's idea;

So your suggestion is essentially turning the Zoners into not much more than Freelancers. If that's the case, then why even keep Zoners as a thing? Just change all of their stuff to Freelancer and be done with it. This is even easier to do now, since Zoners had (or will have) their caps removed, removing any conflict with the FL ID not allowing caps.

You don't need a Zoner ID as the bases to develop a faction and get your own ID. Just because 3 player factions right now took that path, doesn't mean it's the only path available. Take The Reavers or Mandalorian Mercenaries for example, they were old Freelancer ID'd factions back in .85, but then they got their own ID's, bases, and diplomacy.

Zoners just really don't have a purpose in this mod anymore, even the player factions that made Zoners successful that now have their own ID's and systems, shy away from calling themselves Zoners. Various groups over the years have devolved the title of "Zoner" into something negative, that immediately brands you as a lolwut or bad player.

Although Freelancer and Zoner IDs would be very similar in those regards, and that the zoner factions usually achieve a degree of autonomy, the main problem of erasing the zoner ID would be identifying who is able to change freeport policies when necessary.

You could convert the freeport administrators into freelancers, but then everyone would question their legitimacy of handling a freeport as an individual or small organization. It would probably brake the Zoner cohesive policies, and make every freeport the target of the diplomacy game.

Suddenly the Corsairs could "engage" in diplomacy with the surrounding freeports, pressuring them to deny docking privileges to their enemies, or risk a constant siege (since they can't be destroyed). Or something as outlandish as that.

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[.Gypsy.]

Wow, I just read this entire thread, this is the most constructive topic on Zoners Ive ever seen on this forum... from both sides, Kudos to all of you!

There has been much discussion on the subject of caps. In my opinion, Zoners should never have received them. However, the fact is, they did. And, they have had them for a long time too.

I think we need to decide which way we want to go. Either remove caps from all factions that don't have the lore justification for them, or provide them for everyone, or just leave things as they are. This is a tough call and not one we will make without further discussion.

I think we need to decide which way we want to go.

Either remove caps from all factions that don't have the lore justification for them

I don't think that would be good at all at this point. Can you imagine the uproar that would cause?

provide them for everyone

Now I think that would be fun Which of course is the point of the game. But wow would that be a ton of work!! Though I would love to see this as more ships equal more fun and choices IMO.

or just leave things as they are. This is a tough call and not one we will make without further discussion.

Probably the most logical thing. Though I would love to see every group with a limited cap line for fun reasons.

I suggested a while back that Zoner caps should be restricted to the Omicrons/Outside house space. Perhaps we should ban Zoners from house space completely? They're not really meant to be there after all. Of course, allow the official factions to still maintain their ability to enter house space: treat it like a perk over being an indie.

I don't think restricting is ever the way to solve things, Just like the idea to limit outcast caps from liberty, it stifles the fun of the game.

I'm all for using lore as a basic guideline to maintain the concept of the game but not to stifle it, I think "What would make the game funner." should always take president over lore provided there is RP to back it, but that is JMO.

Again, whatever happens, I am encouraged to see a topic like this already on 9 pages being discussed so constructively!

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[SnakThree]

Now I think that would be fun Which of course is the point of the game. But wow would that be a ton of work!! Though I would love to see this as more ships equal more fun and choices IMO.

Adding Battleship to ID would be sufficient as ally ships can be used for time being.

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[.Gypsy.]

Now I think that would be fun Which of course is the point of the game. But wow would that be a ton of work!! Though I would love to see this as more ships equal more fun and choices IMO.

Adding Battleship to ID would be sufficient as ally ships can be used for time being.

True, I didn't think of that.

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[Haste]

remove caps from all factions that don't have the lore justification for them

The most logical decision for a roleplaying server. After all, how can roleplay encounters be believable when you frequently run into ships that don't make sense in the game world whatsoever?

provide them for everyone

The most logical decision for a PvP server with little to no roleplaying elements. After all, what better way to make PvP fair and fun for everyone than to give everyone access to the same ship selection options?

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In other words, which option would be preferable for Disco depends on what kind of server people want this to be.

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[SMGSterlin]

Although Freelancer and Zoner IDs would be very similar in those regards, and that the zoner factions usually achieve a degree of autonomy, the main problem of erasing the zoner ID would be identifying who is able to change freeport policies when necessary.

You could convert the freeport administrators into freelancers, but then everyone would question their legitimacy of handling a freeport as an individual or small organization. It would probably brake the Zoner cohesive policies, and make every freeport the target of the diplomacy game.

Suddenly the Corsairs could "engage" in diplomacy with the surrounding freeports, pressuring them to deny docking privileges to their enemies, or risk a constant siege (since they can't be destroyed). Or something as outlandish as that.

How is that any different from how the Freeports (and all Zoner bases as a whole IIRC) are run and controlled now? Zoners don't really have a command structure or government, they're just a large group of people who wanted to get away from the houses.

Pretty much, each Freeport (or Zoner base, I forget if all Zoner bases are run by different administrators) is run by "some random guy", and not diplomatically connected to any other Freeport. Freeports as they are now are already open to the diplomacy game. Of course, Freeport 4 is exempt, because IMG.

Speaking of which, that sounds like an interesting idea. Someone should gather up some old remnant Corsair players and BHG Core players and put FP 11 in that situation. Corsairs threaten the FP11 Zoners to deny access to the BHG guys, and likewise with BHG, would be interesting.

Of course, I think I'm just suggesting something that was done way back in .85, that lead to quite an activity spike for Omicron Delta, and many blue messages.

Was fun though.

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