The Truth about Zoners

[SnakThree]

You see, if Zoners would be no more, the Freelancers would not be subjected to general view. As in, Zoners are currently specific people. While Freelancers are just random people. So if a work broke of around any of the Freeports IFFed as Freelancer station, Freelancers around the Sirius would not be affected. While currently, any Zoner can be blamed for any incident regarding Zoner base.

I'd say it is a win-win.

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[Major_Mayhem]

Pretty much, each Freeport [...] is [...] not diplomatically connected to any other Freeport. Freeports as they are now are already open to the diplomacy game. Of course, Freeport 4 is exempt, because IMG.

Pretty much every Freeport is Member of the CoF. There are 2 exceptions in total, I believe.

[Thyrzul]

So your suggestion is essentially turning the Zoners into not much more than Freelancers. If that's the case, then why even keep Zoners as a thing? Just change all of their stuff to Freelancer and be done with it.

Why keeping Pirate ID? Because that's the unlawful version of Freelancer ID.
Why keeping Miner ID? Because that's the corporate/moneymaker version of Freelancer ID.
Why leeping Zoner ID? Because that's the explorer version of Freelancer ID.

As I earlier said, Freelancer is the all-rounder with the other three being minor variants of it.

You don't need a Zoner ID as the bases to develop a faction and get your own ID. Just because 3 player factions right now took that path, doesn't mean it's the only path available. Take The Reavers or Mandalorian Mercenaries for example, they were old Freelancer ID'd factions back in .85, but then they got their own ID's, bases, and diplomacy.

Obviously, it's not a need, it's an option, just like how mercenary player factions used Freelancer ID or factions like VR or the Samarrans used Pirate ID to start their unique ideas from, factions can use the Miner ID to start a new mining or shipping company, or Zoner ID to expand upon, like how TAZ, OSI and Phoenix did. All of them could have used Freelancer ID instead, but not all of them did. Again, it's not a need, it's an option.

Zoners just really don't have a purpose in this mod anymore, even the player factions that made Zoners successful that now have their own ID's and systems, shy away from calling themselves Zoners.

With the same logic we could remove Freelancer and Pirate IDs, because factions which used them stepped forward and got their own ID. Thing is, there are still indies out there using the Freelancer ID, the Pirate ID, the Miner ID and the Zoner ID.

I think we need to decide which way we want to go. Either remove caps from all factions that don't have the lore justification for them, or provide them for everyone, or just leave things as they are. This is a tough call and not one we will make without further discussion.

As Haste pointed out, the two different ways result in two different kind of servers, either an RP or a PvP one. I myself came here for the first kind. Now, a lot of wise men say if you want change, be the change you want. While Council has some justifications for sporting capital class vessels, definitely not in (relatively) big amounts, therefor I myself am ready to give exact numbers on approximate military power and division of The Council, with reasons backing said numbers. Should that be needed however is to be discussed in a separate thread.

(Also, FP4 is Navy now.)

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[Trogdor]

You see, if Zoners would be no more, the Freelancers would not be subjected to general view. As in, Zoners are currently specific people. While Freelancers are just random people. So if a work broke of around any of the Freeports IFFed as Freelancer station, Freelancers around the Sirius would not be affected. While currently, any Zoner can be blamed for any incident regarding Zoner base.

I'd say it is a win-win.

Why is that desirable? How is that good for the community? Conflict is activity. Diplomacy is activity. This and the suggestions provided by some others turn the Zoners into the equivalent of neutral npcs whom get along with their immediate neighbors and have no pushback on anything going on around them.

This is atrophy. This is part of the community saying, effectively, 'we don't like the Zoners and we don't want them around'. Well, there are some factions I don't like, but I know there are other members of the community who do like playing as those factions, and so I don't go into their threads and start defecating everywhere. If you think the Zoners should be removed or nerfed in this way, you'd better bring a good reason to the table. And so far, I haven't seen it.

The Zoners are not a new thing we are thinking up. They are already here, and have been here for a long time. There are mountains of roleplay involving them. These sorts of changes would take all of that and toss it in a landfill. I don't think that's a line of thought that we should be pursuing.

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[SMGSterlin]

Why keeping Pirate ID? Because that's the unlawful version of Freelancer ID.
Why keeping Miner ID? Because that's the corporate/moneymaker version of Freelancer ID.
Why leeping Zoner ID? Because that's the explorer version of Freelancer ID.

As I earlier said, Freelancer is the all-rounder with the other three being minor variants of it.[/color][/align]

Fair enough, but if that's the plan, then lets actually call it what it is, and rename it Explorer ID, to actually generalize it and make it generic.

Zoner is still quite specific.

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[lIceColon]

Thyrzul, I actually think Zoner ID being a freelancer explorer ID is a good explanation for its better-than-junkers neutrality and wide ZOI (and actually basically everything they have now- early explorers have had some of the fattest trade ships and half decent military gear to aid in and exploit their exploratory work), however it should still remain a Zoner ID and not be a generic freelancer explorer ID, as that is still what makes the Zoners unique - they (at least in my interpretation of the lore) have a friendly "stigma" to them that does not exist in the freelancer.

When I meet a freelancer on scanner I cannot be certain what he will do, at least with a zoner I can be sure he would not try to murder me and ruin my day even though he has a big scary ship, and that pacifismesque quality (which I cannot stress enough does not equate to defenselessness) is what makes zoners zoners, more than just freelancer explorers.