The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID

[Zen_Mechanics]

Can players, using Zoner characters tell us, what part of RP will Zoners would lose in case their capital ships are rulewise not allowed into House Space ( bolded list of systems ).

Zen, please answer my inquiry.

None. Yet, it does limit ones abillity to travel from one point to another without doing circles - and as long as there are zonnie stations, they can't be denied access to it, regardless of what ship they use. I think trog has made that point very clear, that house-space is not the issue.

Let me expand further on this topic.

If by some miracle, ames and beth, and the freeport in alberta were to be moved to other places, then in such case I will be in favor of banning caps, I'll be the first one to submit a player request. But its not the case, and while I know that banning caps to house space will solve many problems, I cannot accept it and ignore the golden rule. golden rule is, despite my needs or what I want, I can't and will not stop anyone from accessing their zoner stations.

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Were fools to make war on our brothers in arms.

[Connor]

Zoner caps are meant to be for the Omicrons, right? Then they should stay there. Zoner caps should be restricted to zoner IDs only. It's their job to explore. The only RP i see coming from Zoner caps are Mobile bases as such. Not vessels entering systems that are already occupied by houses. They're meant to explore the Omicrons.

the Aquilon is the final solution to Zoner exploratory and expansionist needs.

Taken from the Zoner Carrier wiki page

Zoners have customized these vessels to fill multiple roles on the modern battlefield as well as serve as heavy transports and supply ships for the most remote regions of space.

The Zoners who travel into the unknown of deep space trust these ships to sustain them during long explorations that are expected to take several generations, and thus outfit the ships to be capable of light industry and hydroponic food production during the voyage. The Nephilim is also capable of making planetfall and establishing a fully autonomous colony.

Taken from the Zoner Nephilim Wiki Page

Seriously. I honestly think that these changes are a good idea because they represent the ZONERS more then what the ID does at the moment. I would go to the extent to say that allowing zoner caps into house systems is OORP and not needed. Honestly, i think that Capital vessels should be taken of the ID altogether and stuffed on Official faction IDs. If a group is wanting a Zoner Cap, they should ask an official faction and make a deal with them. It involves RP.

No more Zoner powertraders dancing around in house space

At the moment, i would say that Zoners can abuse their neutrality for getting the best trade routes possible. I mean, where can they not go? Gallia? That's the only place i can think of. Even some Zoner groups are allowed there.

No more Zoner capitals flying into house space

More logical RP sense, less lolwutty caps in house space and less Zoner powertraders. Hopefully this means we will have more people using the ID for the sake of RP, rather than caps or trading

Again, this would seem more in RP. Zoners flying capital vessels into house systems only seems stupid. It's completely OORP because they're designed for exploring the Omicrons. The only reason why i see a Capital Vessel should be allowed in house space is if they're an Official Faction and they're on a diplomatic mission.

Oh, so attacking on a personal level si?

Seriously, tel. Why do you always think EVERYTHING is attacking you or your group personally? People give a bit of feedback and you go Ape. You believe that your factions are the best and that they can not improve. At least that is what i get from how you think everyone is attacking you on a personal level. Why do you have to go back and insult them back? Why do you have to attack them back?

P.S - you have both demonstrated how weak and un reliable you two are, and for that very same reason - discarded right away.

Work on yourself before anyone else. Please, seriously, stop thinking everyone is against YOU. It's childish behavior, but i know this won't change because i'm expecting a reply that will "Attack" me back from you (Ether that or i won't get a reply). You don't have to get personal with everything.

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[Zen_Mechanics]

Zoner caps are meant to be for the Omicrons, right? Then they should stay there. Zoner caps should be restricted to zoner IDs only. It's their job to explore. The only RP i see coming from Zoner caps are Mobile bases as such. Not vessels entering systems that are already occupied by houses. They're meant to explore the Omicrons.

the Aquilon is the final solution to Zoner exploratory and expansionist needs.

Taken from the Zoner Carrier wiki page

Zoners have customized these vessels to fill multiple roles on the modern battlefield as well as serve as heavy transports and supply ships for the most remote regions of space.

The Zoners who travel into the unknown of deep space trust these ships to sustain them during long explorations that are expected to take several generations, and thus outfit the ships to be capable of light industry and hydroponic food production during the voyage. The Nephilim is also capable of making planetfall and establishing a fully autonomous colony.

Taken from the Zoner Nephilim Wiki Page

Seriously. I honestly think that these changes are a good idea because they represent the ZONERS more then what the ID does at the moment. I would go to the extent to say that allowing zoner caps into house systems is OORP and not needed. Honestly, i think that Capital vessels should be taken of the ID altogether and stuffed on Official faction IDs. If a group is wanting a Zoner Cap, they should ask an official faction and make a deal with them. It involves RP.

No more Zoner powertraders dancing around in house space

At the moment, i would say that Zoners can abuse their neutrality for getting the best trade routes possible. I mean, where can they not go? Gallia? That's the only place i can think of. Even some Zoner groups are allowed there.

No more Zoner capitals flying into house space

More logical RP sense, less lolwutty caps in house space and less Zoner powertraders. Hopefully this means we will have more people using the ID for the sake of RP, rather than caps or trading

Again, this would seem more in RP. Zoners flying capital vessels into house systems only seems stupid. It's completely OORP because they're designed for exploring the Omicrons. The only reason why i see a Capital Vessel should be allowed in house space is if they're an Official Faction and they're on a diplomatic mission.

Oh, so attacking on a personal level si?

Seriously, tel. Why do you always think EVERYTHING is attacking you or your group personally? People give a bit of feedback and you go Ape. You believe that your factions are the best and that they can not improve. At least that is what i get from how you think everyone is attacking you on a personal level. Why do you have to go back and insult them back? Why do you have to attack them back?

P.S - you have both demonstrated how weak and un reliable you two are, and for that very same reason - discarded right away.

Work on yourself before anyone else. Please, seriously, stop thinking everyone is against YOU. It's childish behavior, but i know this won't change because i'm expecting a reply that will "Attack" me back from you (Ether that or i won't get a reply). You don't have to get personal with everything.

Really, because I had the impression we were talking in civil about main issues, but then someone had to deliberatly mention ZA as a way of shutting me up. Id say thats an attack alright, you may disagree.

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Were fools to make war on our brothers in arms.

[Pavel]

Discovery RP 24/7 Rules



Lyth has my full support with those changes. Moreover, I'd restrict zoner transports bigger than 3.6k from flying with any sort of cargo inside House space. Zoner powertrading is clearly an abuse of overpowered ID. House trade routes are for corporations, not for some fringe space hippies.

Ami Zoner go home.

[Caconym]

Zoner caps are meant to be for the Omicrons, right? Then they should stay there. Zoner caps should be restricted to zoner IDs only. It's their job to explore. The only RP i see coming from Zoner caps are Mobile bases as such. Not vessels entering systems that are already occupied by houses. They're meant to explore the Omicrons.

the Aquilon is the final solution to Zoner exploratory and expansionist needs.

Taken from the Zoner Carrier wiki page

Zoners have customized these vessels to fill multiple roles on the modern battlefield as well as serve as heavy transports and supply ships for the most remote regions of space.

The Zoners who travel into the unknown of deep space trust these ships to sustain them during long explorations that are expected to take several generations, and thus outfit the ships to be capable of light industry and hydroponic food production during the voyage. The Nephilim is also capable of making planetfall and establishing a fully autonomous colony.

Taken from the Zoner Nephilim Wiki Page

Seriously. I honestly think that these changes are a good idea because they represent the ZONERS more then what the ID does at the moment. I would go to the extent to say that allowing zoner caps into house systems is OORP and not needed. Honestly, i think that Capital vessels should be taken of the ID altogether and stuffed on Official faction IDs. If a group is wanting a Zoner Cap, they should ask an official faction and make a deal with them. It involves RP.

No more Zoner powertraders dancing around in house space

At the moment, i would say that Zoners can abuse their neutrality for getting the best trade routes possible. I mean, where can they not go? Gallia? That's the only place i can think of. Even some Zoner groups are allowed there.

No more Zoner capitals flying into house space

More logical RP sense, less lolwutty caps in house space and less Zoner powertraders. Hopefully this means we will have more people using the ID for the sake of RP, rather than caps or trading

Again, this would seem more in RP. Zoners flying capital vessels into house systems only seems stupid. It's completely OORP because they're designed for exploring the Omicrons. The only reason why i see a Capital Vessel should be allowed in house space is if they're an Official Faction and they're on a diplomatic mission.

Oh, so attacking on a personal level si?

Seriously, tel. Why do you always think EVERYTHING is attacking you or your group personally? People give a bit of feedback and you go Ape. You believe that your factions are the best and that they can not improve. At least that is what i get from how you think everyone is attacking you on a personal level. Why do you have to go back and insult them back? Why do you have to attack them back?

P.S - you have both demonstrated how weak and un reliable you two are, and for that very same reason - discarded right away.

Work on yourself before anyone else. Please, seriously, stop thinking everyone is against YOU. It's childish behavior, but i know this won't change because i'm expecting a reply that will "Attack" me back from you (Ether that or i won't get a reply). You don't have to get personal with everything.

+1.

If by some miracle, ames and beth, and the freeport in alberta were to be moved to other places, then in such case I will be in favor of banning caps, I'll be the first one to submit a player request. But its not the case, and while I know that banning caps to house space will solve many problems, I cannot accept it and ignore the golden rule. golden rule is, despite my needs or what I want, I can't and will not stop anyone from accessing their zoner stations.

Kinda funny that you talk about allowing everyone to go everywhere when you say that you enforce a strict security distance (or is your gun range) around your Nephilim and that you'll "nuke" anyone who gets within that distance. Furthermore, I don't see why you'd need Zoner caps at Ames or Freeport 14. As administrator of Freeport 14, I can say that there is nothing that requires capital forces in Alberta. Nothing to colonize (if you want to use the "colony ship" argument) or defend from. The Freeport is supplied by transports, not caps, so that's not a valid reason to have caps there. Pirates usually tend to avoid attacking the Freeport, and anyone who does attack the Freeport will be bountied and denied docking for a long, long time. It's pretty much the same case for Ames and Bethlehem; even more so for Bethlehem, as it's literally one lane away from a police station and there's a Liberty Navy battleship in the system. So again, I see no reasons for caps to go there.

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[WesternPeregrine]

Pilot carrying this quasi-lawful ID is a Zoner, who:
- Can attack any ship in self-defense, to protect another Zoner ship, or in defense of Zoner bases.
- Cannot bring cruisers, carriers or battleships into house space.
- Cannot dock transports with more than 3,600 cargo within any House, except on GMG, IMG or Zoner bases.
- Cannot participate in unlawful actions except as described above.

Of course, this ID would not apply in the same way to Zoner officials.

Result:

• No more Zoner powertraders dancing around in house space
  
• No more Zoner capitals flying into house space
  
• More logical RP sense, less lolwutty caps in house space and less Zoner powertraders. Hopefully this means we will have more people using the ID for the sake of RP, rather than caps or trading
  
• More reason to join a Zoner official faction.
  

Edits:
Changed the places Zoner caps can't go from systems containing a jump gate to just house space.

Seems like a good change in my perspective. I wouldn't think that the same zoners who rejected house rule and tried to live in the fringes of space would come back to the house's territory and aggravate the authorities with some sort of big ships.

IF there is really a reason for one of those to go or be present in house space, or in the spots between, maybe he could get a SRP?

By the reasoning of defense of freeports from the terrors of unlawful space, the capital ships have little to no need to be present at the freeports in the independent worlds, who can rely on bounty hunters or on the occasional request to the neighboring navy to restore a semblance of order.

Crossing from the Sigmas to the Omegas, you can easily pass from s-17, Theta, to o-41, with the added bonus of having 2 freeports in the route.

The passage from the Taus to the Omegas is a little more tricky, but it's a short rush through Dublin, and going either to Edinburgh or Omega-49.

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Kusari Former Mastermind

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[St.Denis]

I don't own any Zoner Caps, and I have no axes to grind with Zoners or the OP, but if the ID was to change, to what the OP is suggesting, then I would probably suggest an addendum.

- Cannot bring cruisers, carriers or battleships into house space. Unless escorted by the House Police/Navy.

This would allow those Caps that wanted to transit House Space to be able to. I know it is a House Law but if it was added, to their ID, then there wouldn't be any ambiguity.

The passage from the Taus to the Omegas is a little more tricky, but it's a short rush through Dublin, and going either to Edinburgh or Omega-49.

This would then be breaking House Laws and would require an escort from House lawfuls and hence back to my addendum.

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'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are'
Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person

[SnakThree]

Question, why would Zoners even use capital ships to defend Freeports. A trio of bombers can do more harm than one battleship and not cause any problems with local authorities. And a bomber can continue to RP with lawfuls without being subject of termination themselves.

Problem solved.

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[Jack_Henderson]

Zoner players should approach this topic a different way. You need to be more strategical than you are now. Seriously.

You should have recognized by now that there are many people that intensively hate on you.
Especially what they call "lol-caps" is what freaks many of those that hate you out.

There have been plans (are plans?) to remove all Zoner caps completely.

Then there is a suggestion (in here) to keep Zoner caps but limit them in their freedom of movement.

- Cannot bring cruisers, carriers or battleships into house space.

House space, as defined by the rules, is no big deal, I would say.

Liberty
New York
Alaska
California
Colorado
Ontario
Texas

Bretonia
New London
Cambridge
Dublin
Leeds
Manchester
Newcastle

Kusari
New Tokyo
Hokkaido
Honshu
Kyushu
Shikoku

Rheinland
New Berlin
Dresden
Frankfurt
Hamburg
Munich
Stuttgart

Gallia
Ile-de-France
Berry
Burgundy
Maine
Orleanais
Picardy

That's rather harmless isn't it?
I mean, what do you want to do in House space with caps anyway? Pretty much everybody is forrbidden by ingame laws to enter on caps anyway. You can get shot because of roleplay laws or can be shot down via sanction lancing. It doesn't make -that- much of a difference, as both leads to "don't do it".

I think it would be better to step back and relax.

Storms like the "let's beat up Zoners!" stop again.

And ye, I do agree that it is kind of funny how present the "ZA!!!" outrage is still, even though the conflict is far far far in the past. 6 months? 1 year? Somewhere between? Seems some made a lasting impression.

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[Ponge]

people abusing Nephilims and Aquillons for the sake of Jumpdrive usage

People use the Zoner ships as jumpships/survey ships because Zoners are neutral almost everywhere.
Yes, jumptrade is bad, etc, etc, but JD4 still exists, so there should be a reasonable solution to this aspect of the problem as well.
Like: civilian jumpship:
- counts as civilian tech, no nerf with any ID (unusable with Recruit ID), useable with Freelancer ID
- enough core to operate a JD4 or a survey
- one special equipment slot (so it cannot jump and re-scan coords)
- no guns, no CM (so it can't cloak)
- enough cargo to mount the JD4 and store some fuel (maybe enough to solo jump, without a separate fuel ship)
- transport shield
- low hull points, low bat/bot count, fragile and easy to kill

Or anything else. I think as long as JD4 exists, people will try to find loopholes in ID wording and laws to use it, or they just break the law, giving a headache to police/navy and their respective official faction (ehm, certain House navy jumpship in Theta).

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