New and improved anti-zonerzonerzoner Zoner ID Wrote:Pilot carrying this quasi-lawful ID is a Zoner, who:
- Can attack any ship in self-defense, to protect another Zoner ship, or in defense of Zoner bases.
- Cannot bring cruisers, carriers or battleships into house space.
- Cannot dock transports with more than 3,600 cargo within any House, except on GMG, IMG or Zoner bases.
- Cannot participate in unlawful actions except as described above.
Of course, this ID would not apply in the same way to Zoner officials.
Result:
No more Zoner powertraders dancing around in house space
No more Zoner capitals flying into house space
More logical RP sense, less lolwutty caps in house space and less Zoner powertraders. Hopefully this means we will have more people using the ID for the sake of RP, rather than caps or trading
More reason to join a Zoner official faction.
-snip-
Edits:
Changed the places Zoner caps can't go from systems containing a jump gate to just house space.
While at it, let's implement every single one of your excellent ideas, then rename the mod to Lythrilux's Discovery Freelancer 4.87. After that, you can busy yourself playing with the NPCs, because no one else will probably play this mod anymore.
On a more serious note, do you happen to have any good ideas?
Restrictions such as this are killing this community (take a good look on the Order activity levels for example - a seriously restricted ID), and here you are, opting for yet another one.
That's a pretty bold statement. I'm sure someone such as yourself is a pioneer of excellent ideas as to how to make this game better?
I've actually suggested ways as to how to make the Omicrons more interesting an engaging in order of stimulate interactions. Fortunately, it seems a Dev is already going about fixing things to give the Omicron factions something to do.
(05-31-2014, 11:06 AM)titanbot Wrote: P.S.:
(05-31-2014, 10:50 AM)Lythrilux Wrote:
(05-31-2014, 10:04 AM)RedEclipse Wrote: This changes would affect on Phoenix/OSI/TAZ IDs too, as these IDs are based on Zoner ID.
Did you even read the OP? I said official factions would be exempt from these changes to give them an edge over indies.
And why do you support the official factions so much, exactly? I for one prefer not to be restricted by people with obtuse ideas such as yourself.
You preach about role play. Well then, propose a RP scenario instead, where a Zoner capital ship in House space without a specific invitation is automatically considered hostile (or unlawful) and thus a combat target.
I for one am against more and more restrictions, when all you need to fix this whole charade is to treat their capital ships (official factions included) as combat targets as long as they don't have some form of a Role Play invitation (and escort) in a certain house system.
It's that simple.
Regards,
titanbot
Official factions are the only way these indies can be kept in line. However, with the current amount of power official factions have, they have no direct power over indies. Therefore, the only real way they can gain control is by absorbing these indies into the official faction itself.
And do you know what's going to happen if Zoners keep presenting themselves as combat targets in house space? They're going to get banned from the houses.
(05-31-2014, 11:29 AM)Trogdor Wrote: I really, really doubt Lyth has anything but selfish intentions in mind. I think another hit the nail on the head when they suggested he's just doing this to make it easier for his JM to pirate.
This thread has nothing to do with JM. Clearly you don't know anything about JM of you think we're a piracy faction first and foremost.
(05-31-2014, 11:29 AM)Trogdor Wrote:
(05-30-2014, 09:57 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: Result:
No more Zoner powertraders dancing around in house space
( How is this a new benefit? Zoner traders already had that cargo limit docking restriction. )
No more Zoner capitals flying into house space
( Again, undesirable side effects )
More logical RP sense, less lolwutty caps in house space and less Zoner powertraders. Hopefully this means we will have more people using the ID for the sake of RP, rather than caps or trading
( ... did you really just restate the first two points as a third point? )
More reason to join a Zoner official faction.
( Undesirable. They don't deserve it. )
I've already addressed your ramblings concerning these matters earlier on in the thread. Surely if you read it as you claimed, there's no need for you to make this point?
(05-31-2014, 11:29 AM)Trogdor Wrote: Finally, and most importantly, this will NOT be "the end of ZonerZonerZoner" because all you've done is take, take, take. You want to make the ID even more restrictive than it was before, and give nothing in return.
---
The indie Zoner will look at this ID and say to themselves, "Okay, I can't do this, this, and this. What can I do?"
The community's answer:
Placing the Zoners back into the Omicrons/borderworlds And ithw where they belong will stimulate interactions, activity and RP with other factions.
(05-31-2014, 11:43 AM)david.starr Wrote: Ok, then. So, why don't we use the Nephilim as a colony ship and the Aquilon as a defense carrier against Nomad patrols? The Fearless can help on defense, and the Corvo could be an exploration vessel...
Wait!! That's what they are!! That's how official factions have used them all along!! Oh, so there was no problem in the first place!! No zoner drama! OH!
So what's your point? If anything, you've just given me reasons FOR the argument. Why are carriers being used as a defence against Nomads in house space, considering Nomads are Omicron dwellers? Why is a colony ship in house space? What can it possibly 'colonise' there? And why does the corvo need to explore house space?
(05-31-2014, 11:43 AM)david.starr Wrote: The next guy that calls for any change on any zoner asset must first suggest to have one asset of his most played faction removed/changed also. Again: shut up already and go play.
(and, yeah, thank you Fifty, some sensive opinion in this thread for once)
This thread isn't about changing their assets, simply relocating them.
Not quite, because they derive from the open zoner ID. So the officials might be affected by some of the changes. And we have plenty of unnofficial zoner factions around, good ones with good RP, they have all the right to fly their caps from place to place too if they want. The no docking rule is enough.
(05-31-2014, 12:05 PM)david.starr Wrote: Who talked about house space, pale-face? The only zoner caps in house space are the lolwuts and/or n00bs.
I was talking about their roles in the Omicrons, mostly. TAZ uses them in Baffin and Coronado, but TAZ have very few Nephs, they use the Aquilon almost exclusively, what fits their RP for defense of the system and not deep space colonization. Fearless for Neph and Freeport defense, Corvo for deep/upper Omicrons and new systems exploration.
Is that clear now? Or do I need to draw?
But, now, think with me a little: with the do not enter house space limitation, how would TAZ move an Aquilon to help defend Gran Canaria from a corsair and coalition occupation like they did last year? They havo to go through bretonia for that. Or jump. But then we would start another drama thread, now about jumps...
I think the no-docking in house space limitation is good enough.
That's completely fine, because, as I have said a million times, these changes don't affect TAZ. And yet again, in your first two paragraphs, your agreeing with me.
What's your intent in this thread?
(05-31-2014, 12:10 PM)david.starr Wrote: Not quite, because they derive from the open zoner ID. So the officials might be affected by some of the changes. And we have plenty of unnofficial zoner factions around, good ones with good RP, they have all the right to fly their caps from place to place too if they want. The no docking rule is enough.
How do you know that officials will be affecred my the changes? There's no proof to support that.
CW| (which is now dead sadly) never relied of caps for their RP. They were probably one of th best examples of Zoner RP on disco at the time. Solar Runners have said on this thread already that these changes wouldn't affect their RP much as they don't bring caps into the houses.
ZA brought caps into the houses. And as we know, ZA aren't a shining example of Zoner RP.
Quote:Official factions are the only way these indies can be kept in line.
people must loose that attitude in order to propose valid suggestions. - it is not "these indies" but some indies, and the wrongdoers can also include members of factions.
so to start off, i suggest to find a solution that can be equally applied to "the zoners" - if you think there is something wrong with the zoners.
you really do not want to - ahh.. encourage ... players to join factions for all the wrong reasons, which is more freedom, cause then they do not join the faction at all, they just wear their tag. ( i sincerely hope you understand the not so subtle difference )
I support Lythrilux on this one, Zoner caps have faced way too much abuse from the indie side and should be restricted to the border worlds, where they're supposed to be. I would either change the Zoner ID to do that or change the caps themselves, for example removing or significantly reducing the Armament of the Nephilim.
Something has to be done.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it." René Descartes
Quote:Official factions are the only way these indies can be kept in line.
people must loose that attitude in order to propose valid suggestions. - it is not "these indies" but some indies, and the wrongdoers can also include members of factions.
so to start off, i suggest to find a solution that can be equally applied to "the zoners" - if you think there is something wrong with the zoners.
you really do not want to - ahh.. encourage ... players to join factions for all the wrong reasons, which is more freedom, cause then they do not join the faction at all, they just wear their tag. ( i sincerely hope you understand the not so subtle difference )
If players join an official zoner faction for the sake of either flying a 5ker in house space or flying Zoner caps in house space, they're doing it wrong. As such, the office factions can just remove the player abusing the faction privileges.
This restriction does not inhibit the way a player can RP a Zoner. It merely prevents in-house Zoner drama and ooRP lolwutism. If it works for the Core and the Order, then it can work for Zoners.
(05-31-2014, 11:43 AM)david.starr Wrote: Ok, then. So, why don't we use the Nephilim as a colony ship and the Aquilon as a defense carrier against Nomad patrols? The Fearless can help on defense, and the Corvo could be an exploration vessel...
Wait!! That's what they are!! That's how official factions have used them all along!! Oh, so there was no problem in the first place!! No zoner drama! OH!
The next guy that calls for any change on any zoner asset must first suggest to have one asset of his most played faction removed/changed also. Again: shut up already and go play.
(and, yeah, thank you Fifty, some sensive opinion in this thread for once)
Pretty much what I was about to say.
If one official member behaved in that way, they would have been sanctioned or put out of existence ages ago. Sadly same cant said for the behavior of one or group of lolwut who seems they get away with it, but the rest of the responsible Zoner community gets punished for it.
Restricting CAPS for officials like SCRA and handing out rest on SRP / Endorsement basis would have solved the problem years ago but we obviously cant have that can we.
Many blame the official factions not doing enough to help . Many are right because official factions can't. Guess why ? When they do, their voice are often brushed aside and often ignored. The perfect example was few months ago with Jinx/Kaz trying to alter Zoner shiplines. All 3 Official Zoner factions + Commonwealth came together to say No. They made both official statement and a joint statement, they participated in Zoner threads despite trolls. Result? None of what the Official Zoners said was taken in because the recipient had their fingers shoved in their ears.