(05-31-2014, 11:43 AM)david.starr Wrote: Ok, then. So, why don't we use the Nephilim as a colony ship and the Aquilon as a defense carrier against Nomad patrols? The Fearless can help on defense, and the Corvo could be an exploration vessel...
Wait!! That's what they are!! That's how official factions have used them all along!! Oh, so there was no problem in the first place!! No zoner drama! OH!
The next guy that calls for any change on any zoner asset must first suggest to have one asset of his most played faction removed/changed also. Again: shut up already and go play.
(and, yeah, thank you Fifty, some sensive opinion in this thread for once)
Pretty much what I was about to say.
If one official member behaved in that way, they would have been sanctioned or put out of existence ages ago. Sadly same cant said for the behavior of one or group of lolwut who seems they get away with it, but the rest of the responsible Zoner community gets punished for it.
Restricting CAPS for officials like SCRA and handing out rest on SRP / Endorsement basis would have solved the problem years ago but we obviously cant have that can we.
Many blame the official factions not doing enough to help . Many are right because official factions can't. Guess why ? When they do, their voice are often brushed aside and often ignored. The perfect example was few months ago with Jinx/Kaz trying to alter Zoner shiplines. All 3 Official Zoner factions + Commonwealth came together to say No. They made both official statement and a joint statement, they participated in Zoner threads despite trolls. Result? None of what the Official Zoners said was taken in because the recipient had their fingers shoved in their ears.
That's the whole point of this suggestion: it puts power back into the hands of the officials.
If the indies don't like it, that's OK. They can still continue their Zoner RP, with the difference of not being able to fly nephilims into house space.
I see as this thread was opened due to the zoner lolcaps in Liberty (the 2 Nephs), but have anyone reported them already for a 1.3 violation? I suppose these kind of ships can be sanctioned, as they fly deep space colony ships into House space, then they provoke the authorities, endangering the lives of hundreds of Zoner civilians on board. Isn't this completely against Zoner lore? If anyone, who behaves like them, finds their really expensive toys bastilled, or even deleted in case of multiple offenses, this might cool off a bit, don't you think?
A sanction for "harming server gameplay" might also stand, as they induce threads like this one, which suggests changes those would affect entire factions based on a few lolwut players behaviour. I think in cases like this, Admins should intervene right away, bastilling/moving away those ships without a sanction report, so flaming, insults and the consequences (tempbans) could be avoided.
Of course, if someone RPs it properly (asking for permission/escort), he/she still could enter/cross house space without any problems.
up to a point, you are right, but by escalating inRP rules to server rules, you do take away opportunities of interaction. to make that one clear....
... i take it you do not like it when a zoner is caught in a capital warship in house space. and you loathe the interaction associated with it.
but maybe it is just you. - maybe other players actually do like it, maybe some players like catching zoners and apply their inRP laws on them. if it was a server rule, this interaction was taken away - if it occured, it would become subject to an admin sanction instead of inRP pvp.
i daresay that these encounters are actually rather rare and the utmost majority of zoners ( in that case, i ll just consider the players with a zoner ID, hence, no official factions ) play by the rules and know pretty well whats right or wrong.
but you would not notice the indies that do good, cause - you do not seek them out. you notice the ones that do wrong - how would you notice all the ones that do right - you don t take down names of zoners who do right and give them a pat on their back for admirable roleplay after observing them for a good time, you see "incidents/accidents" and highlight them.
back in the day, the primary BHG faction was the DW ( darkwing ) - and there was a similar discussion. - they roamed around in liberty with their capital ships.
we had threads were people claimed without a shadow of a doubt that "the DW was ONLY flying capital ships and seek out pvp" which is funny, these people sometimes even claimed the DW was only flying capships and lolwut around when in their direct scanner range there was a group of DW fighters roleplaying verbally.
5 minutes later when asked, these people would have sworn that they had NEVER seen the DW use anything else but capships.
what that means is - when you expect something, you will only see what you expect or your mind will highlight it, you may see different incidents but you ll put it away under "further notice".
i would like you to respect all the zoner indies that do not do wrong. the vast majority of zoner indies does NOT go to the houses space, the vast majority of zoner indies does not dock their 5k transports in house space where they must not do it ( those that do violate the rules anyway - and those that use small ships to unload in house space do EXACTLY what they are meant to do, mind you )
that is why i ask you do FIRST try to find a solution that can be applied to ALL zoners and zoner based factions and only after you desperately tried it and it failed, you can start to seek out solutions that make zoners into one of the custom made factions that allow special conditions to officials compared to indies.
i do not think you have really tried that - you jumped too quickly at "lets give officials the benefit of the doubt and accuse all indies regardless"
(05-31-2014, 12:23 PM)vanalvo Wrote: Restricting CAPS for officials like SCRA and handing out rest on SRP / Endorsement basis.
vanalvo actually hit the bullseye on the whole issue. when the zoner caps drama by certain devs started up, the officials discussed long and hard and came to the same conclusion. cap restrictions for indies would be the best solution to curb the wuttism and prevent any further drama lik what was attempted..
unfortunately, it seems to me that some of us (thats official zoners) have now lost their interest since the caps are saved. that doesnt curb the problem and limit the chance of future attempts to scrap them happening.
I for one, would actually like to see some opinions on this option and/or restricting caps in general from those green folk.
@Jinx
Zoners are their own worst enemy though. At this rate the houses are just going to start thinking to ban Zoners. It's the only logical conclusion in order to get this mess out of their hair. I'm trying to to avoid this.
I've been trying to find solutions, it's not easy. You were onto something with your capital ship changes however you didn't consult the official factions which was your mistake.
I'm all ears to new suggestions.
(05-31-2014, 11:06 AM)titanbot Wrote: all you need to fix this whole charade is to treat their capital ships (official factions included) as combat targets as long as they don't have some form of a Role Play invitation (and escort) in a certain house system.
It's that simple.
bumping for visibility and sentiment of +1
can confirm the best solution to idiot nephs/aquilons is judicious application of valor directly to the forehead
Seriously, though, I don't see why you would want to deal with them any other way, unless you were a traffic warden in real life, or the kind of mini-Hitler who enjoys enforcing ze rules and regulations zat must be obeyed at all times.
Just shoot spaceships in a spaceship-shooting game, and enjoy the screams of dying zonerzonerzonercaps the Gallic Way™.
Anyone who thinks any House military - not just GRN, which I'm obviously most linked to - is under any obligation to treat obnoxious Zoners with any amount of compassion is deluding themselves. Even a fairly 'outsider-friendly' military such as BAF or LN should be trigger-happy when confronted with a literal twenty-two turret juggernaught showing up uninvited in their space. I would almost say it should be taken as an act of war, and not just as the usual 'oh I made a mistake/got lost/[other BS here] lol' that the Neph pilot always pulls out as an excuse.
The problem is, that if we treat Zoner caps that way, stuff that is not supposed to happen inRP is gonna influence the Roleplay of the houses, thus eventually leading to the Zoner ban Lythrilux mentioned.
May be there are from time to time reasons for a Zoner Colony Vessel to enter house space, but there are certainly none that require it not to contact the House before to request an escort to pass the house. There is no reason for a billion credits worth of spaceship and hundreds of zoners to enter house space knowing that their whole existance is gonna be threatened by doing that. Zoner Colony Vessels are supposed to stay in deep space, not enter house space without even contacting the house before.
I would approve restricting Capital Ships to the official factions to deal with this problem, but I agree that that might be a bit too harsh, so an ID change would mostly be enough for the Zoner problem.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it." René Descartes
(05-31-2014, 11:06 AM)titanbot Wrote: all you need to fix this whole charade is to treat their capital ships (official factions included) as combat targets as long as they don't have some form of a Role Play invitation (and escort) in a certain house system.
It's that simple.
bumping for visibility and sentiment of +1
can confirm the best solution to idiot nephs/aquilons is judicious application of valor directly to the forehead
Seriously, though, I don't see why you would want to deal with them any other way, unless you were a traffic warden in real life, or the kind of mini-Hitler who enjoys enforcing ze rules and regulations zat must be obeyed at all times.
Just shoot spaceships in a spaceship-shooting game, and enjoy the screams of dying zonerzonerzonercaps the Gallic Way™.
Anyone who thinks any House military - not just GRN, which I'm obviously most linked to - is under any obligation to treat obnoxious Zoners with any amount of compassion is deluding themselves. Even a fairly 'outsider-friendly' military such as BAF or LN should be trigger-happy when confronted with a literal twenty-two turret juggernaught showing up uninvited in their space. I would almost say it should be taken as an act of war, and not just as the usual 'oh I made a mistake/got lost/[other BS here] lol' that the Neph pilot always pulls out as an excuse.