Creation of special Zoner ID, for caps and big transports, rephacked to House factions and restricted to border and edge worlds, is another easy and logical solution.
(06-01-2014, 06:56 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: @Jack
The thing is though Jack, what kind of standards are we trying to set here?
Low ones. But Disco on server roleplay has always been casual, low, relaxed. Hey, I would love to have a consequent, 100 % logical world, but there is only such a world when I invent it, and even then it is only logical for me alone. There is no such thing as a universally accepted standard of what it should be.
And: the higher you make this standard, and the more you allow innocent mistakes to break your immersion, the harder it will get for the average to get there. Consequently your immersion will be broken much more often.
But Jack, what makes Zoners so special that restrictions shouldn't apply to them? All the other factions have to get in line and follow restrictions in order to create a believable RP environment. What makes Zoners exempt from this?
And perhaps, if you think for a moment, casual and relaxed role play is not the right route for this mod to follow.
I believe Jack is suggesting, and I agree, that we should relax some restrictions in the name of promoting activity and fun. Not just for the Zoners. I will take a questionable interaction over a lack of interaction any day.
Server population is low. Faction activity is low. I can only assume making the mod more restrictive will exacerbate this.
(06-02-2014, 08:35 AM)Lythrilux Wrote:
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:
Quote:Zoner caps in house space is ooc in itself, as they're meant to be explorers.
I would not say that they are oorp.
They should not be there, IF there is not a very good reason. I can make up 10 reasons why they should be able to be there, but most players likely do not go that far as to find a reason and rp it.
10 reasons please.
1. Intelligence and recon. If the Zoners did need to jump forces into a system such as Bering or Kepler, they would first need to get a survey ship there, which afaik can only be a cap, which would need to pass through house space.
Or 2. I may wish to sneak in cloaked and watch an area, or scan certain ships in house space with my capital ship's scanner, plausibly gaining more useful intelligence than a smaller ship would be capable of.
3. Black Ops. A cap is capable of cloaking for much longer periods of time than a snub. Let's say that, as part of a larger story, I made a deal with [Pirate Faction]. In exchange for [Plot Device], I could use my cap's carrier capabilities to, for example, smuggle fighters carrying [Whatever] to [Wherever].
Or 4. sneak up on an unsuspecting target and deliver pirate bombers. AFAIK, I don't need to uncloak to eject them from my ship.
Or 5. A certain ship(s) have been harassing Zoner traders passing through House space. We could set a trap by cloaking near a jumphole out of the house, and using a bait ship to lure the offender(s) in.
6. Being kind of a big deal, I could be invited into a house to take part in some kind of diplomatic event, like the Donau was invited into Liberty at the beginning of vanilla FL. Could I use an away ship for this? Yes. Does that mean I should be obligated to by server rules? No.
7. As I've suggested in the past, you might need to enter House space just so that you can get to the systems on the other side. If I had a need to get there, and the means to do so, I should not have a nonsensical artificial restriction preventing me from going that way. That is immersion-breaking and OORP.
8. I may come under attack by nomads or something and be forced to flee. My only options may be to a) die or b) run to a house system. It would be oorp to sit there and die because I have the aforementioned artificial restriction. I could then call for help, and after the threat is dealt with, negotiate with the authorities.
9. If I make a blind jump and end up in a house system, I've violated my ID and deserve sankshun? Lol no. You deal with it through ingame interaction.
Or 10. The guy with the jumpship types in the wrong set of coordinates and jumps everybody to Manhattan. SANKSHUNS FOR ALL!
(06-02-2014, 08:35 AM)Lythrilux Wrote:
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: "Mistakes" in roleplay can either be:
> ignored (preferrable if you assume that the player just does not know + educate the person)
> handled in roleplay
They're not just mistakes though. It's an abuse of the Zoner RP and ID. We could always revert back to simpler times when AI cruisers ran rampant in NY and BHG caps flew everywhere.
It is not an abuse of the Zoner RP or ID. I just gave you 10 reasons why I might find myself in House Space.
There's also no need to strawman arguments you disagree with. "Oh, well, if we're going to relax a rule here and there, we might as well toss the whole rulebook!"
(06-02-2014, 08:35 AM)Lythrilux Wrote:
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:
Quote: Having them in house since is not only silly, it also threatens their diplomacy. They can't expect to break house rules and still be friendly to the houses.
No biggie. They are indies. No official faction takes responsibility for indies any more. Nobody will even think about changing rep towards Zoners because a lulz-cap indie flew around.
Official factions don't have to though, they're their own Zoner groups. The houses could ban all Zoners except for the 3 official factions.
I don't know where you got the idea that the houses would even consider doing this. I think it's safe to say that if it hasn't happened yet, it isn't going to. Unless Echo waves his magic dev wand or something.
(06-02-2014, 08:35 AM)Lythrilux Wrote:
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: The solutions:
> shoot and forget
> ignore and forget
If you let something like this get in the way of your rp-experience, you are the one who is doing it wrong.
If you're a house lawful, you RP is to enforce house laws. You expect my character to not do his job just because it's a Zoner? Are you trying to apply Colons logic here now? OK, sure I can shoot it, doesn't mean I'm going to forget it. I'm sure people still have Stealthtyper fresh in their minds.
Uh, he just said you were within your rights to shoot the offender. Then move on. You just had a roleplay interaction, be happy.
(06-02-2014, 08:35 AM)Lythrilux Wrote:
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:
Quote: I don't want to delete the caps, only shift them away from where they shouldn't be.
Hardcoded (via ID) ZoI restrictions are unnecessary for something like Zoners. I mean... we understand that no one wants BHG Caps on Core ID engaging their enemies everywhere. But seriously, the Zoner ID is severely limited in their pvp potential, so I doubt there is a necessity.
There is an RP necessity, in order to end house Zonerzonerzoner drama.
There will always be ZonerZonerZoner drama as long as there are people like you, Pavel, Omicron, etc determined to shove your specific view of the Zoners' role in the mod down people's throats, instead of just appreciating the fact that we're here for you to interact with.
Let's instead try to create opportunities for Zoners to do things with their Caps in the border/edgeworlds. It's only logical that the 'problem players' can't find anything to do out there, and so they wander into more populated parts of the mod looking for activity. If we fix this, the problem will likely go away on its own.
(06-02-2014, 08:35 AM)Lythrilux Wrote:
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: However, I do not even resist a line about Cap ZoI. It just won't change much. Right now, Zoner caps are shot in House space. I always see the calls. 10 mins later, done. With that ID change, you can now sanction them in addiation. Wow.
*sigh* as I have said a million times already, it's against their RP for them to be in house space. This suggestion fixes that problem as well as relocates the caps to deeper space where new activity can be created.
Any suggestions for that new activity beyond edge world trade routes?
(06-02-2014, 08:35 AM)Lythrilux Wrote:
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:
Quote:And no, I don't want a Junker cruiser for the Junker NPC faction. Why? Because before we know it people will start breaking house rules left, right and center. There's a much bigger axe to grind with Junkers than Zoners inRP, and they'd be kicked out the houses pretty quickly, messing up their diplomacy.
No. Just keep your own tagged-faction cruisers in check.
As I said... no one cares and no one should care too much (in my case: at all) for the mistakes that indie players make. Our job is to tell them (best done oorply), and to go on having fun. Junkers would not suffer more from the indie Cruiser pirating in NY
They would though, because their bases are right on the houses doorstep, if not in them. Puerto Rico is also inside Liberty, which would be where he cruiser comes from. Lawfuls aren't stupid Jack, this is am RP server. RP involves RPing a character and then dealing with the effects and consequences of your RP.
And?
So sneak them up to Kusari or out to the Taus when the law isn't looking. Or fight the Xenos on your doorstep.
If the law catches you, deal with the consequences.
Quote:But Jack, what makes Zoners so special that restrictions shouldn't apply to them? All the other factions have to get in line and follow restrictions in order to create a believable RP environment. What makes Zoners exempt from this?
And perhaps, if you think for a moment, casual and relaxed role play is not the right route for this mod to follow.
The difference between a BHG|Core and a Zoner cap is that the Zoner cannot open fire at anybody. There is no active aggressive potential in Zoners. If there is, they are breaking their ID and are open to sanctionlancing.
And casual & relaxed rp is the only possibility on a server like this one because we have to bridge the gap between hardcore roleplayers (5 %) and a large majority of relaxed rpers, mininal rpers and no-rpers. The loud 5 % are nothing but extremists. Following their view would alienate the majority. As much as I would love everything to be perfectly fitting... let's be realists: there is no alternative to a "relaxed rp" middleground as a compromise.
Quote: 10 reasons please.
Diplomatic mission
A jumping malfunction that landed the capship somewhere
A dangerous alien artefact was recovered in Omicrons and the Commander wants to hand it over to a House
Protection of a Zoner installation (by the capship that is stationed there = standard and pretty much allowed in most Houses)
Evacuation of freed people to House space (perhaps the rescued people wished to be taken there?)
... pretty much every roleplay mission can lead to an incursion of "hostile caps!!!! AARGHHHH!!!!" into House Space. It can result in good roleplay, actually, if it is a roleplay encounter. With the ID changed, that is not possible any more.
Quote:Official factions don't have to though, they're their own Zoner groups. The houses could ban all Zoners except for the 3 official factions.
How realistic is that? Punishing all Zoner ID indies for the 5 % of people that go against the rules. A faction that files that ID-FR5 for indie incidents only should be punished themeselves for being harmful for gameplay.
Quote:If you're a house lawful, you RP is to enforce house laws. You expect my character to not do his job just because it's a Zoner? Are you trying to apply Colons logic here now? OK, sure I can shoot it, doesn't mean I'm going to forget it. I'm sure people still have Stealthtyper fresh in their minds.
It is your free choice whether to accept roleplay or ignore it.
It is also your free choice whether to take it as something serious or to just get it done and forget it.
In the case of a lost zoner no rp cap, you treat it as every lolwut cap that you find: shoot it. Done. Forget. Why bother yourself roleplaying something that does not deserve your time? Not caring and moving on is by far the cleverer choice.
Quote:There is an RP necessity, in order to end house Zonerzonerzoner drama.
I have an alternative suggestion to end it.
Stop posting Zoner threads and stop treating every Zoner indie mistake as a big thing worth noticing.
A healthy attitude to ignore silly things is important and will improve your experience in the game.
Quote:*sigh* as I have said a million times already, it's against their RP for them to be in house space.
As shown above, there can be instances when it actually is rp. Most of the time it is not.
But: let's give OC caps the same because they should not be in NY. And let's.... and lets... and let's... no.
Let's just not play nerf-/delete-/restriction-lancer when there is no need to.
Quote:They would though, because their bases are right on the houses doorstep, if not in them. Puerto Rico is also inside Liberty, which would be where he cruiser comes from. Lawfuls aren't stupid Jack, this is am RP server. RP involves RPing a character and then dealing with the effects and consequences of your RP.
So? As long as the faction Junkers do not break rules, how would anybody care? Single notorious Junker pirates would be FR5ed by the House, like FP1 FR5s some, etc. Indie stuff generally does not lead to an ID being nerfed. You are still taking this FR5 and diplomacy stuff too serious, Lyth. Indie actions do not count. It does not matter whether it is a cruiser or a Recycler. The only difference is, that caps (!!!!!) get so much more attention for hard to understand reasons, so the FR5 against that cap would be quicker.
Quote:Also Jack, if you claim officials don't take responsibility for indies, then what's this?
Hm? I don't get it. Of course you try to interact with indies and help them. Irply, and oorply. But you do not take responsibility when they screw up, as if you would if your own people screwed up.
Integrating indies as much as you can into good, positive and rule-abiding roleplay should be absolutely normal for official factions.
Diplomatic mission Really?. same can be done with a liner or trans with some GBs as escorts.
A jumping malfunction that landed the capship somewhere why you would blind jump unless you were stuck somewhere really bad and jumping was the only option
A dangerous alien artefact was recovered in Omicrons and the Commander wants to hand it over to a House 1. The Order. 2. why give it to a house?
Protection of a Zoner installation (by the capship that is stationed there = standard and pretty much allowed in most Houses) As has been said before, GBs and bombers are much more effective, with much less trouble.
Evacuation of freed people to House space (perhaps the rescued people wished to be taken there?) why use a cap ship for this? that makes no logical sense.
... pretty much every roleplay mission can lead to an incursion of "hostile caps!!!! AARGHHHH!!!!" into House Space. It can result in good roleplay, actually, if it is a roleplay encounter. With the ID changed, that is not possible any more. that's a pretty generic "it could happen" answer right there.
Also that is only 6 reasons, not 10. keep thinking jack.
(06-02-2014, 11:55 AM)Pavel Wrote: Creation of special Zoner ID, for caps and big transports, rephacked to House factions and restricted to border and edge worlds, is another easy and logical solution.
some sort of division and creation of zoner IDs with different restrictions and allowances is another viable option.
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Focussing on the good, stepping away from what does not fit is a vital skill in roleplaying if you care for your own immersion.
I thought it's been obvious enough that people complain about Zoner caps in house space because they care for their own immersion. Does that seem logical only to me?
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: But seriously, the Zoner ID is severely limited in their pvp potential, so I doubt there is a necessity.
If you think they can't get their pew they want, you're wrong. said pvp limits only exist as long as they don't provoke others into an initiation of engagement, once that happens they are free to shoot. That line on the Zoner ID is just too easy to circumvent.
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: As I have said before: No one cares for an indie capship that runs into House space, gets shot out and respawns somewhere.
Rrrrrrright, and that noone keeps bringing zonerzonerzoner threads to 40 pages each on a monthly basis, right?
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Better improve on your ignore skills. It will make your gaming experience a lot better, I know it does.
Lol, like putting your head deep into sand would help a lot. Ignore, ignore, ignore, until the point you are not to care about anything, right? "They are breaking my immersion, but who cares? I'm not meant to have fun, I'm meant to ignore..."
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: If you take responsibility, only you are to blame.
Second biggest pile of bullcrap I've seen recently. Do you know what was the first biggest one?
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:
(06-01-2014, 06:56 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: @Jack
The thing is though Jack, what kind of standards are we trying to set here?
Low ones.
NOPE
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Trogdor Wrote: 1. Intelligence and recon. If the Zoners did need to jump forces into a system such as Bering or Kepler, they would first need to get a survey ship there, which afaik can only be a cap, which would need to pass through house space.
What forces would FP2 or Ames need, consisting of capital vessels? What defense do they require what can't be offered by numerous smaller craft?
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Trogdor Wrote: Or 2. I may wish to sneak in cloaked and watch an area, or scan certain ships in house space with my capital ship's scanner, plausibly gaining more useful intelligence than a smaller ship would be capable of.
Why would you need capital scanners? Fly closer, nobody would mind you anyways, because you are just a zoner. Ever thought anonimity might be the most effective cloak?
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Trogdor Wrote: 3. Black Ops. A cap is capable of cloaking for much longer periods of time than a snub. Let's say that, as part of a larger story, I made a deal with [Pirate Faction]. In exchange for [Plot Device], I could use my cap's carrier capabilities to, for example, smuggle fighters carrying [Whatever] to [Wherever].
You could just smuggle the stuff yourself as well, in a cargo ship of any kind. Or again, anonimity. Why would unlawfuls contact a neutral party if not their anonimity? If they would want to move the stuff literally invisible they could cloak themselves, couldn't they?
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Trogdor Wrote: Or 4. sneak up on an unsuspecting target and deliver pirate bombers. AFAIK, I don't need to uncloak to eject them from my ship.
Wouldn't that border your "self defense only" restriction? Or you could just do the trap thing you brought up in #5.
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Trogdor Wrote: Or 5. A certain ship(s) have been harassing Zoner traders passing through House space. We could set a trap by cloaking near a jumphole out of the house, and using a bait ship to lure the offender(s) in.
Or you could just contact house authorities, use fighters/bombers (either of these are good for anything you might want to take on), set up the trap with clever positioning instead of cloaking yourself in a dumb spot, etc...
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Trogdor Wrote: 6. Being kind of a big deal, I could be invited into a house to take part in some kind of diplomatic event, like the Donau was invited into Liberty at the beginning of vanilla FL. Could I use an away ship for this? Yes. Does that mean I should be obligated to by server rules? No.
What would be so hard in using a diplomatically correctly sized vessel? You wouldn't go to a diplomatic meeting in a tank, would you?
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Trogdor Wrote: 7. As I've suggested in the past, you might need to enter House space just so that you can get to the systems on the other side. If I had a need to get there, and the means to do so, I should not have a nonsensical artificial restriction preventing me from going that way. That is immersion-breaking and OORP.
Here is an inRP explaination for why you couldn't go to anywhere near the houses: The moment they spot your uber-high-tech battleship, a floating city bigger, better armed and armored than their own naval stuff, that's the moment Zoner neutrality ceases to exist and houses will begin consider Zoners a serious threat to national security. And then the witch-hunt begins.
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Trogdor Wrote: 8. I may come under attack by nomads or something and be forced to flee. My only options may be to a) die or b) run to a house system. It would be oorp to sit there and die because I have the aforementioned artificial restriction. I could then call for help, and after the threat is dealt with, negotiate with the authorities.
If you are far enough from houses you will definitely have more options than to fleeing into house space. The above scenario is likely to happen only if you are surrounded by houses, which means you are already in the wrong place.
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Trogdor Wrote: 9. If I make a blind jump and end up in a house system, I've violated my ID and deserve sankshun? Lol no. You deal with it through ingame interaction.
Don't do blind jumps. You might end up inside a sun, or worse, the sanction board...
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Trogdor Wrote: Or 10. The guy with the jumpship types in the wrong set of coordinates and jumps everybody to Manhattan. SANKSHUNS FOR ALL!
See above... Apply either #7 or #9.
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Trogdor Wrote: I think it's safe to say that if it hasn't happened yet, it isn't going to.
What makes you think Houses will not lose their patience?
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Trogdor Wrote: There will always be ZonerZonerZoner drama as long as there are people like you, Pavel, Omicron, etc determined to shove your specific view of the Zoners' role in the mod down people's throats, instead of just appreciating the fact that we're here for you to interact with.
Let's instead try to create opportunities for Zoners to do things with their Caps in the border/edgeworlds. It's only logical that the 'problem players' can't find anything to do out there, and so they wander into more populated parts of the mod looking for activity. If we fix this, the problem will likely go away on its own.
You are no better than them, trying to force your own views on what a Zoner is on others, you are as much the cause of zonerzonerzoner drama as those you listed. Why won't everybody, with a different opinion of what a Zoner is make their own Zoner faction and once got Player ID for it, roleplay it how they wish to roleplay a Zoner?
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:
Diplomatic mission
A jumping malfunction that landed the capship somewhere
A dangerous alien artefact was recovered in Omicrons and the Commander wants to hand it over to a House
Protection of a Zoner installation (by the capship that is stationed there = standard and pretty much allowed in most Houses)
Evacuation of freed people to House space (perhaps the rescued people wished to be taken there?)
... pretty much every roleplay mission can lead to an incursion of "hostile caps!!!! AARGHHHH!!!!" into House Space. It can result in good roleplay, actually, if it is a roleplay encounter. With the ID changed, that is not possible any more.
Do diplomacy in a diplomat vessel. A luxury liner or a smaller transport would do, I'm sure.
Make sure no malfunctions happen before you jump. Did I mention you could end up inside a sun, or worse...?
And of course they had to hand that artifact over in the biggest, most visible ship possible, to attract the most attention instead of carrying it over swiftly in an escorted freighter or armored transport...
Station defense can be done in many ways, it doesn't outright warrant capital ship presence. Oh, and you can negotiate too, can't you?
Do evacuation with transports/liners, they can hold more people/cargo on board anyways.
Why not possible? If you want to bring a foreign cap into house space so much, why don't you choose an ID for it which allows that to happen?
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: How realistic is that? Punishing all Zoner ID indies for the 5 % of people that go against the rules. A faction that files that ID-FR5 for indie incidents only should be punished themeselves for being harmful for gameplay.
How would the house-space restriction be a punishment to those 95% of Zoners who don't even go into houses? Overreacting much?
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Not caring and moving on is by far the cleverer choice.
Let's just clarify that it's your own opinion, okay?
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: let's give OC caps the same because they should not be in NY. And let's.... and lets... and let's... no.
Why not?
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Let's just not play nerf-/delete-/restriction-lancer when there is no need to.
Again, if everybody would agree on that there is no need to take zonerzonerzoners seriously and that they wouldn't be immersion-breaking at all, these threads would have already ceased to pop up a good while ago. But you see, they are still here.
(06-02-2014, 12:46 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: caps (!!!!!) get so much more attention for hard to understand reasons
Want me to explain the difference between a sailing boat and an aircraft carrier?
@Different Zoner ID versions
I'd rather stay with this restriction proposal Lyth submitted to us, and if anybody wants their Zoner faction to be specialized in some way, they can go for officialdom and own Player ID like TAZ, OSI and Phoenix did.
see, Thyr, Lyth: I do not want to get into any deeper discussion in here.
I think I have made my main points clear:
Protect your own gaming experience by not taking silly things seriously and by overrating indie incidents (even if they involve caps).
There is no real need for drastic actions against Zoner caps as Zoners are likely the most harmless caps that are flying around.
This game needs less nerf-/disallow-/sanction-lancing and more positive encouragement, which of course would also go hand in hand with a certain open-mindedness and tolerance for other roleplay approaches.
A middle-ground, rather "soft" approach to roleplay needs to be taken to bridge the gap between no-rp, minium-rp, casual-rp and hardcore rp players.
Personally, I do not have a problem with the draft as Lyth has it now.
I do not think it is necessary, but it will not do much harm. It's a little clumsy, but benign.
Quote:Pilot carrying this quasi-lawful ID is a Zoner, who:
- Can attack any ship in self-defense, to protect another Zoner ship, or in defense of Zoner bases.
- Cannot bring cruisers, carriers or battleships into systems with 2 or more jump gates with the exception of systems with a Zoner base.
- Cannot dock transports with more than 3,600 cargo within any House, except on GMG, IMG or Zoner bases.
- Cannot participate in unlawful actions except as described above.
The only real change that I can see is, that one can react to a Zoner cap in a "wrong"TM place by sanctionlancing instead of by roleplay.
That's okay for the lol-cap (actually, educating in green letters and escorting out would be preferrable), but it is definitely not cool for some of the rp scenarios that were described.
I'd really love to know how often you see these "out of place caps", so that they justify this sort of attention. Playing quite a bit myself, I find it hard to believe that there is no bug amount of exaggeration in all these zonerzonerzoner threads.
Quote:Creation of special Zoner ID, for caps and big transports, rephacked to House factions and restricted to border and edge worlds, is another easy and logical solution.
Why not create something along the lines of this...and let the Zoners just fly them where they please? The Zoner-Cap ID could be rep-hacked to hostile with all House lawful/unlawful stations, and give Lawful police/militaries and pirates/unlawfuls the right to hunt down these offending ships without risk of getting FR5'd (especially if it's only indy lolwuts piloting these ships anyways)?
Seems to me that would solve the problem by both letting the lolwuts get engaged by everybody (PEW for ALL!), but still giving indies the ability to fly the Zoner caps without nerfing their powers or abilities, but only their reps.
(06-02-2014, 11:55 AM)Pavel Wrote: Creation of special Zoner ID, for caps and big transports, rephacked to House factions and restricted to border and edge worlds, is another easy and logical solution.
Is this for indy zoners or all zoners including factions ?