Request for Rules Clarification

[Zelot]

Since despite the rather clear explanation Garrett and Jinx provided people still seem to be confused, here's a bit more explanation on the subject:

Under normal circumstances Skype is not considered valid material for sanctions. We all have our own opinions, we all share them on Skype, and sometimes more exaggerated than they actually are just so we can vent off, however in this particular case the individual in question took it so far that it didn't really matter whether it happened on forums, on Skype or anywhere else. For the record, I abstained from the vote due to my main character having a longstanding background with the 101st, but I fully understand the team's stance and the reasons behind the decision they made, as I myself have received countless of lovely PMs from that individual including some of the most imaginative insults I've ever heard.

Divine's continuous and excessive direct attacks toward the staff members (both administrators and developers) as well as his abusive attitude and unjustifiable remarks (most often resorting to uncalled for racism to an unreasonable extent) during most if not all of any discussion he's had with anyone from the staff which had ended in a difference of opinion has been going on for so long that it's completely understandable if people figured they've had enough already. So just because Skype is not normally considered when processing a sanction, doesn't mean an individual has the right to be outright out of line when disagreements arise, and going on an rage-fueled tirade against admins and developers which sometimes has even lasted a whole hour while the staff member was trying to be actually reasonable and sensible.

So, which is the rule, what you put in green or what came after it which completely contradicts it? Either you guys can use skype for sanctions or you can't. This, we decide if the situation warrants using skype for the sanction is really a very very bad precedent to set. While you say under normal circumstances skype will not be used, you go on to say how if you all feel insulted by someone on skype, you will sanction them for it. This is really out of bounds, the community rules do not, nor should they be able to cover behavior on skype. As the rules don't apply to skype, basically what has happened here, is that you have decided to perma ban someone without a violation of the rules and based on him being mean to you. Is that really the precedent you guys want to set? That sanctions don't need a rule violation and can be arbitrarily imposed by the staff?

Please don't perma ban me for disagreeing with you. While that may seem like a silly comment, there is nothing it seems, to stop it from happening.

PS. To second Kaz's comment, there is a block button on skype, you don't like what someone is saying to you, just use that.

---

 

[Evo]

Divine asked me to post this in his stead.

Alright ladies and gentlemen, this discussion can be closed, and despite being banned from posting on the forums and the game (I'd appreciate a proper sanction report on that game ban though if it'll be kept up), I'll have this message forwarded to you all...
This dicussion is over.
Garrett (the one I heavily confronted on Skype) explained it quite well, and along with Zelot's position I'd like to add just one thing...
Skype is not linked to any of the server/forum rules, but I proceeded immediatly after a member of my faction was accused of cheating to directly attack an admin on a very personal level, which ofc was, to say it nicely, a not so clever move by my end.
Overall, any Skype-related talk is not within reach of the server/forum-rules, but as I had my comments linked towards a specific action that was brought upon one of my factions members, after having knowingly posted twice a rather demanding response in said members sanction thread after being told to stop, the action taken by the staff so far is warranted to a certain degree (which is my offense for posting in a sanction thread after being told to cut it).
I still, personally, disagree with having Skype linked to the rules in any way at all, but given the case this, in my case, came along, I'll not have you guys arguing over it anymore.
So again, this discussion is done. Answers were given by the official side. Thread can be closed.
I apologize to anyone I've made trouble with this, and apologize for anyone who makes any further trouble because of the sanction that was invoked upon me.

I forgot Divine was the master of all we discuss and decides whether or not we discuss it.

---

[Yber]

He took the problems he had with the staff to a place where he could simply attack them personally and supposedly get away with it, which, sir, it's called abuse, exactly what you're doing here with demagogic and victimizing arguments, Zelot.

It doesn't matter where he took the trouble to, it's still related and originally created within the community and therefore the rules cover it.

---

inb4 Sirius gets renamed to XTF.

[Zelot]

He took the problems he had with the staff to a place where he could simply attack them personally and supposedly get away with it, which, sir, it's called abuse, exactly what you're doing here with demagogic and victimizing arguments, Zelot.

It doesn't matter where he took the trouble to, it's still related and originally created within the community and therefore the rules cover it.

Do you know what demagoging and victimizing is? I don't even like Divine, have never had a good interaction with him, and would prefer him not in the community. That has nothing to do with it. The rules protect both the players and the admins. Without the rules, the players are at the mercy of other players and admins. Without following the rules, the admins have no authority. When the admins are arbitrary with the rules and how they are applied, it weakens their authority with the community and makes it more difficult maintain order in the community. I made an argument about where the admins have the authority to enforce their rules, it has really, nothing to do with the specifics of the sanction at hand. But yea, keep trying to pull out big words for the sake of pulling out big words.

Aside from that, are you really suggesting if I am mean to you on skype that should be sanctionable? What about on other websites? What about on TS?

---

 

[Tutashkhia]

Yber, he took the problems where he was able to... He couldn't continue arguing about his ban or whatever it was on the forum, for a simple reason, he was temphabanned. When you're temphabanned you cannot log on the forums,thus he tried to argue about it in Skype.

+1 to Zelot. This guy, as a neutral watcher, talks right,without any partiality. And what's more none of us has any doubts about his awareness in rules/all these stuff.

Whining,insulting or being mean to others in any kind of communication should be Divine's personal issue, but on the other hand, as Zelot said, the rules protect him in this case too.As it seems.

---

Tutashkhia Reports

[Ryummel]

This can only be solved by having Yber asking our new king for an "indulto" on behalf of Divine.

---

[SnakeLancerHaven]

"Under normal circumstances Skype is not considered valid material for sanctions."


Under NORMAL circumstances nothing against you here divine, bro. Just wanted to point it out. <- I wont take part in this discussion but just wanted to point out the rule, had no problems with divine so far.

---

R.I.P Tabris...
Youtube - Twitch - My old Account

[Harrington]

Well I don't know it if it was right to permaban this individual or not since I have no idea what he actually said, but I just wanted to respond to certain arguments raised here, which are pretty much void and actually pose a larger problem in this community imho.

Aside from that, are you really suggesting if I am mean to you on skype that should be sanctionable? What about on other websites? What about on TS?

Admins here can't sanction people on Skype, since they cant take Skype away from them or anything like that, but they can sanction people on the site/server where they are admins, if you break these rules towards members of this community on any channel. Some of you are talking like these two things are the same.

The rules are the conditions by which you are expected to behave if you want to play here. Permitting people to break these rules on other channels towards members of this community would be like not applying them at all.

For example, if a player threatens another player, be it with things on the server like reporting rule violation here, or be it with physical violence in the real world. How could you permit them to do that on Skype, but not here? The threat is still there and still the same, no matter what channel, and no matter if he could have chosen to not speak with this person on Skype before the threat was issued. Same goes for insults.

Or another example, if a member of the community made his own website where he posted anything he wanted about other members of the community here. Things which would be rule violations here, but since he stays within the law of the country he lives in, nothing can be done about the site. Can discoveryGC sanction him on his own site or in his country? No. But can they kick him off their own site for doing it? They sure can.

To second Kaz's comment, there is a block button on skype, you don't like what someone is saying to you, just use that.

Most people log onto Skype for other reasons than willfully submitting themselves to the abuse of who they are talking to.

One would be because its a requirement for them to join an official faction here. Are you really suggesting that official factions members be systematically permitted to violate rules towards each other on Skype, and accepting that is a pre-requirement in the official faction?

Another would be the lack of a more suitable thread on the forum, because the thread on the forum is not suitable for the particular topic. Should that always be accompanied with the permission to spew verbal abuse?

Now, the reason I said that it was a larger problem in this community is that personally I have the impression that a lot of the long-term members here have lost touch with normal human interaction morals and replaced them with a sort of "discoveryGC moral" that differs significantly from the former. It basically means that you can abuse people here, as long as you do it under the cover of RP, as long as you do it on Skype, as long as you don't anger the wrong people with it.

I think the sanction is a consequence of it, but its really only the tip of the iceberg that emerges when one of the three is broken (in this case it seems to have been the latter). The real problem is not this one sanction (be it justified or not, I really don't know), the real problem is that so many people here think its ok to abuse someone as long as you stick to one or more of these 3 guidelines.

---

User was banned for: Karlotta
Time left: (Permanent)

[SnakeLancerHaven]

Well I don't know it if it was right to permaban this individual or not since I have no idea what he actually said, but I just wanted to respond to certain arguments raised here, which are pretty much void and actually pose a larger problem in this community imho.

Aside from that, are you really suggesting if I am mean to you on skype that should be sanctionable? What about on other websites? What about on TS?

Admins here can't sanction people on Skype, since they cant take Skype away from them or anything like that, but they can sanction people on the site/server where they are admins, if you break these rules towards members of this community on any channel. Some of you are talking like these two things are the same.

The rules are the conditions by which you are expected to behave if you want to play here. Permitting people to break these rules on other channels towards members of this community would be like not applying them at all.

For example, if a player threatens another player, be it with things on the server like reporting rule violation here, or be it with physical violence in the real world. How could you permit them to do that on Skype, but not here? The threat is still there and still the same, no matter what channel, and no matter if he could have chosen to not speak with this person on Skype before the threat was issued. Same goes for insults.

Or another example, if a member of the community made his own website where he posted anything he wanted about other members of the community here. Things which would be rule violations here, but since he stays within the law of the country he lives in, nothing can be done about the site. Can discoveryGC sanction him on his own site or in his country? No. But can they kick him off their own site for doing it? They sure can.

To second Kaz's comment, there is a block button on skype, you don't like what someone is saying to you, just use that.

Most people log onto Skype for other reasons than willfully submitting themselves to the abuse of who they are talking to.

One would be because its a requirement for them to join an official faction here. Are you really suggesting that official factions members be systematically permitted to violate rules towards each other on Skype, and accepting that is a pre-requirement in the official faction?

Another would be the lack of a more suitable thread on the forum, because the thread on the forum is not suitable for the particular topic. Should that always be accompanied with the permission to spew verbal abuse?

Now, the reason I said that it was a larger problem in this community is that personally I have the impression that a lot of the long-term members here have lost touch with normal human interaction morals and replaced them with a sort of "discoveryGC moral" that differs significantly from the former. It basically means that you can abuse people here, as long as you do it under the cover of RP, as long as you do it on Skype, as long as you don't anger the wrong people with it.

I think the sanction is a consequence of it, but its really only the tip of the iceberg that emerges when one of the three is broken (in this case it seems to have been the latter). The real problem is not this one sanction (be it justified or not, I really don't know), the real problem is that so many people here think its ok to abuse someone as long as you stick to one or more of these 3 guidelines.

and then you hear the most cheap excuse of these trolls "It's the internet, if you can't handle it leave." (facepalm) : D So cheap

---

R.I.P Tabris...
Youtube - Twitch - My old Account