Proposed Rule regarding in-RP transactions.

[AceofSpades]

If this addition to the rules is actually instated, be prepared for lawfuls to dock at a POB that has contraband on it, toss a few lines of RP about searching the base into empty space, screen the contraband as a "discovery during the search," and report it with the exact same consequences as occur now. Does that really improve RP to you?

Leppy I appreciate the debate, and understand what you're getting at here. Instead of trying to make an argument to this specific example of how the rule could be manipulated, I will simply say that it would be most helpful to begin simply with a rule regarding the interactions that are already being manipulated.
The situation as it is right now already involves Pilots landing, identifying, and then using [Roleplay out of context].

I'll admit that 3 hours of sleep followed by coding sounds exhausting. Part of my frustrations lie in the fact I've been on a similar schedule, until recently relinquishing certain responsibilities at my own job, on account of a majority of the work I was doing was being derailed by a lack of common sense cooperation among coworkers.

Now i've had extra time thinking I could to attend to something I normally enjoy, and try to make progress on, but I've instead run into the same attitudes I find in the workplace, which has made me infinitely frustrated.



In reference to the ongoing debates that Disco has about Junkers, as well as my use of font colors, I will say this.
This has all been an effort to try and point out the black dog when making a much larger discussion of what is and what should never be. I've been growing somewhat impatient while having to repeat things -how many more times?- to the dazed and confused, while other players on this server are desperately trying to rock and roll. It's perhaps nobody's fault but mine, yet i can't help but feel that anything Junker-related is immediately taken to the gallow's pole. Why other people take such interest in what can or can't be done within the houses of the holy, then instruct them not to be in the light, I do not know. Perhaps they are sick again with envy.
In regards to Discovery, since i've been loving you, my attitude towards this server has always been i can't quit you babe. Even after ten years gone, after all of my love, the song remains the same. But to be honest, if the predominating attitude is to bring it on home and be the heartbreaker every time someone else want a piece of the custard pie, then eventually your time is gonna come, and 'moby dick' will make his final night flight. Though folks continue to be accepting of being trampled under foot, we tire of the dancing days, and wish the communciation breakdown could finally end so that we could say c'mon everybody lets play, it's celebration day.
Poor tom will eventually say, babe im gonna leave you for over the hills and far away, and then you will have the hots on for nowhere, as going to California (n' anywhere else) will be pointless after the ocean that was Discovery becomes empty when the levee breaks. In my time of dying (as well as the others providing so much activity for others to play off), the fool in the rain will be left all alone enjoying tea for one, singing baby come on home, hoping desperately for friends with whom to boogie with (Stu)..



Seriously, we're just here to have fun, see friends, or rockn'roll.

For all the complaining that has been done regarding the 'lackluster amount of interaction' that smuggling implies, we thought something like this could be a boon to the server and would provided the requested 'window' into which smuggler's and their activities could be known to conglomerate.

For as much talk about this being "a push for the Junkers to do as they please", it's not like we couldn't simply carry on with what we already have--a secure situation allowing smugglers to depart and arrive as they wish. That however isn't conducive to expanding involvement in our gameplay. Revealing to you all, and making public, a 'smuggling hub' will do more to improve gameplay for lawfuls and BH's (who now know where a focal point of illegal activity is taking place) then it will ever contribute to an increase in what Junkers can actually do.

Quite honestly, considering the state of this server, i'm surprised anything that could provide a boon to activity would be so easily disregarded. Besides the actual updates, this server hasn't seen truly fresh/original gameplay concepts added to it in years.

Oh well, "enjoy what you got and dont try for more" i guess, even when more is what you be asking for.

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[5:57:11 PM] InfernalTater (Lewis) [Formerly TLI-Inferno]:meanwhile, Aces 'I don't always miss my destinations, but when I do, I'm on the other side of house space.'

Seriously nerf Junkers.

Shoot to Thrill

[R.I.P.]

I agree with what aces is trying to accomplish 100%. Should have been done a long time ago, just kills me how many of you had to have it spelled out to you. Anyways Kudos aces i agree.

[FynnMcScrap]

Im not voting jet since :

- Im prebiased as I still wish to build a PoB in clear sight of a (NPC) Lib Battleship
( even if I wish to sell Scrap there and no explicit contraband, as a quasi-(ill)legal Im getting increasingly careful with
what I do and dont )

- This discussion is not finished jet and I wont vote on unfinished matters

- I would like to suggest an alternative


If the main problem is that we do not want to have MORE Rules, and on the other side that we have a different handling for PoB and NPC Stations :
Is it possible to build a different cargo space ?

Is it a feasible alternative to give player bases a second cargo space , an explizit "smugglers den" so to say, and to enable Base Administration to set a seperate PW to access this trading room ?

With this solution it would be up to Base Admin who to give access to the contraband, and up to players with possible acces but an inRPG reason NOT to know to ignore the fact by NOT using the PW.

No idea if its possible...

It would be fair, though.
After all, whith space being restricted on a PoB, what would you like to build ?
More Factorys ? More Weapon Platforms ?

Or some mirrors and fake walls ?

Lets say : half the space of an ordinary cargo hold, and a commodity can EITHER be set into normal Trade OR into contraband ?

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FynnMcScrap, Foreman of Tinkers Haven

[Highland Laddie]

That's not a bad idea, Fynn. The only problem being that idea requires the creation and coding of something new...whereas the current proposal just requires a new understanding of what is already in use. The latter is really much simpler and easier to implement.

[Leppy]

*snip*

Someone else trying to actually have an actual conversation about this besides Laddie and I. Huzzah!

I like the idea. As far as I know though (granted I'm not exactly up to date on what magic hook can do), doing something along those lines would require a second dockable point (aka a second base essentially) because I don't think its possible to get more than 1 goods vendor on a station at once. Maybe someone could work out a way to get goods sold where the ship vendor should be, but it would probably be a lot of work. If it is possible, that would be a much better solution than the one Ace is presenting.

*snip*

I guess the difference from where I'm coming is that I believe that POBs should be treated no differently than say a player who has permanently parked a barge in the middle of space. POBs were meant to allow players to extend their personal RP. As a result, what a player character does on their POB should be treated the same way as what someone does on their ship.

There are plenty of ways around changing this rule that Ace et all could accomplish what they want to. They would rather have the rules changed to make it easier for them however.



I mean for someone (Ace) who is going on about me trying to squash new RP on this server, it's rather funny that he is ignoring the possible RP he could be doing to resolve the issue with his base instead of trying to change the rules in his favor.

I'll give one quick example because I feel generous this morning:

RP with a high ranking member of the BPA or BFA (official factions that is) about bribing/blackmailing/etc so that they turn a blind eye to your base. Or occasionally give up info about pirates/smugglers who dock at your base in exchange for a free pass. DO SOME RP instead of changing the rules....

[FynnMcScrap]

That's not a bad idea, Fynn. The only problem being that idea requires the creation and coding of something new...whereas the current proposal just requires a new understanding of what is already in use. The latter is really much simpler and easier to implement.

As far as I know though (granted I'm not exactly up to date on what magic hook can do), doing something along those lines would require a second dockable point (aka a second base essentially) because I don't think its possible to get more than 1 goods vendor on a station at once. Maybe someone could work out a way to get goods sold where the ship vendor should be, but it would probably be a lot of work. If it is possible, that would be a much better solution than the one Ace is presenting.

I think one Vendor point would be fine. This setup would enable certain wares only to be visible ( and tradable ) if the Player at the base logs into the ( /smugglerlogin <password> ) part of the shop...

I dont want to suggest a possibility to insert the same ware with two prizes, for excemple. I support a certain commodity only having one Price. After all - it´s the same at normal Bases and Planets.
But to be able to hide certain commoditys from plain view and only to trade them with *vip customers* would be fun.

You could still fix PoB Pricing by setting a RP fine per month to trade at the base :
Set Docking rights as you please, and then set the realy interesting stuff into the secure trading room :
Every Trader who does not want to pay the fine does not get the next months PW. Elegant, simple - and completely in RP.

I dont know about the programming or coding though, sry.

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FynnMcScrap, Foreman of Tinkers Haven

[Leppy]

I think one Vendor point would be fine. This setup would enable certain wares only to be visible ( and tradable ) if the Player at the base logs into the ( /smugglerlogin <password> ) part of the shop...

I dont want to suggest a possibility to insert the same ware with two prizes, for excemple. I support a certain commodity only having one Price. After all - it´s the same at normal Bases and Planets.
But to be able to hide certain commoditys from plain view and only to trade them with *vip customers* would be fun.

You could still fix PoB Pricing by setting a RP fine per month to trade at the base :
Set Docking rights as you please, and then set the realy interesting stuff into the secure trading room :
Every Trader who does not want to pay the fine does not get the next months PW. Elegant, simple - and completely in RP.

I dont know about the programming or coding though, sry.

I'm nearly positive though that, because of the freelancer source code, such a thing would be nearly impossible with a single vendor. It would require either the ship vendor somehow replaced with another commodity vendor or a second dockable point (such as the 2 docking rings on Leeds) created that people treat as a single base/planet but are, as far as the game cares, 2 separate bases.

[AceofSpades]

I mean for someone (Ace) who is going on about me trying to squash new RP on this server, it's rather funny that he is ignoring the possible RP he could be doing to resolve the issue with his base instead of trying to change the rules in his favor.

I'll give one quick example because I feel generous this morning:

Hey man, just to clear the air, I wasn't calling you out all. On the contrary, discussion (such as the type you've brought) is quite productive. However, this is in fact the third topic we've had just to continue discussion without distraction.
Since I know you hadn't read up everything prior (its alot I know), here's what kind of attitude we've been dealing with before you, and what both JT and I were alluding to with those posts.

I'm not going to roleplay with an NPC.

He wants to restrict the selling of commodities to factions that have access to them in role play. Stop being a smartass Jayce.

This entire forum page regarding RP reasons for Bretonian influence on Inverness..
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread...168&page=8

[Regarding the sale of Inverness, or RP such with Junkers there]
Unlikely.

All attempts on myself to work with such are met with a massive "No". So dont count on it in the near future or future.

Unfortunately, this has been the attitude the Junkers have encountered thus far. This 'proposed rule change topic' is in fact the third forum we have had to battle through just to make this one point/proposition. The responses to such, in no way were directed towards you, who joined the conversation later.


In regards to that,

"RP with a high ranking member of the BPA or BFA (official factions that is) about bribing/blackmailing/etc so that they turn a blind eye to your base. Or occasionally give up info about pirates/smugglers who dock at your base in exchange for a free pass. DO SOME RP instead of changing the rules...."

this idea of yours would be an excellent one, in fact another BAF/BPA (forum name Marcus) offered to do exactly this...
...Except the problem is that Great Fox is the BAF command whom we already had previously attempted to do just that with all the way back in May, and were shut down completely in the most rude of manner.

...I would not have simply come out the gate kicking and screaming right away, we've already made (several) cordial attempts to try and make this situation 'work', and have simply been shown the closed door through every other avenue.

More importantly, I'd never simply degrade someone's opinion because it disagrees with my own, im pissed off for exactly that same reason. I would love to RP in any sort of sense this whole idea with the BAF or BPA, but we've already been told by those in charge "we have no interest, you can kindly **** off".

So besides being extremely insulted, we feel there's no other option left in our mind really other then to take this for ourselves here on the forums, or simply be left to be pushed aside indefinitely by those on this server that "dont care to bother with someone elses RP".

I just wanted to clear that up, as the #1 important thing to me as a player is to be a part of this community, we should be respecting those others who share space with us, n' I didn't want to leave you feeling offended man.

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[5:57:11 PM] InfernalTater (Lewis) [Formerly TLI-Inferno]:meanwhile, Aces 'I don't always miss my destinations, but when I do, I'm on the other side of house space.'

Seriously nerf Junkers.

Shoot to Thrill

[Leppy]

...I would not have simply come out the gate kicking and screaming right away, we've already made (several) cordial attempts to try and make this situation 'work', and have simply been shown the closed door through every other avenue.

More importantly, I'd never simply degrade someone's opinion because it disagrees with my own, im pissed off for exactly that same reason. I would love to RP in any sort of sense this whole idea with the BAF or BPA, but we've already been told by those in charge "we have no interest, you can kindly **** off".

So besides being extremely insulted, we feel there's no other option left in our mind really other then to take this for ourselves here on the forums, or simply be left to be pushed aside indefinitely by those on this server that "dont care to bother with someone elses RP".

I just wanted to clear that up, as the #1 important thing to me as a player is to be a part of this community, we should be respecting those others who share space with us, n' I didn't want to leave you feeling offended man.

I don't know the whole story Ace, but from what I've gathered, that answer is in general response to what happened with your base previously (definitely feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). That would make your current troubles of being unable to RP a consequence of previous RP which is exactly what good RP is made out of, even if it doesn't happen in favor of your character.

[myg0t33]

Hey man, just to clear the air, I wasn't calling you out all. On the contrary, discussion (such as the type you've brought) is quite productive. However, this is in fact the third topic we've had just to continue discussion without distraction.
Since I know you hadn't read up everything prior (its alot I know), here's what kind of attitude we've been dealing with before you, and what both JT and I were alluding to with those posts.

This entire forum page regarding RP reasons for Bretonian influence on Inverness..
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread...168&page=8

[Regarding the sale of Inverness, or RP such with Junkers there]
Unlikely.

All attempts on myself to work with such are met with a massive "No". So dont count on it in the near future or future.

Unfortunately, this has been the attitude the Junkers have encountered thus far. This 'proposed rule change topic' is in fact the third forum we have had to battle through just to make this one point/proposition. The responses to such, in no way were directed towards you, who joined the conversation later.


In regards to that,

"RP with a high ranking member of the BPA or BFA (official factions that is) about bribing/blackmailing/etc so that they turn a blind eye to your base. Or occasionally give up info about pirates/smugglers who dock at your base in exchange for a free pass. DO SOME RP instead of changing the rules...."

this idea of yours would be an excellent one, in fact another BAF/BPA (forum name Marcus) offered to do exactly this...
...Except the problem is that Great Fox is the BAF command whom we already had previously attempted to do just that with all the way back in May, and were shut down completely in the most rude of manner.

...I would not have simply come out the gate kicking and screaming right away, we've already made (several) cordial attempts to try and make this situation 'work', and have simply been shown the closed door through every other avenue.

More importantly, I'd never simply degrade someone's opinion because it disagrees with my own, im pissed off for exactly that same reason. I would love to RP in any sort of sense this whole idea with the BAF or BPA, but we've already been told by those in charge "we have no interest, you can kindly **** off".

So besides being extremely insulted, we feel there's no other option left in our mind really other then to take this for ourselves here on the forums, or simply be left to be pushed aside indefinitely by those on this server that "dont care to bother with someone elses RP".

I just wanted to clear that up, as the #1 important thing to me as a player is to be a part of this community, we should be respecting those others who share space with us, n' I didn't want to leave you feeling offended man.

Aces. Lets take everything in context please.

SMI's statement was an ooRP statement. He is the Head of BAF. And if you are going to use quotes it would be nice if you used the whole quote.

Unlikely.

All attempts on myself to work with such are met with a massive "No". So dont count on it in the near future or future.

Independant it may be. But its still under Bretonian Jurisdiction.

Marcus's statement was as the Head of BPA. He gave you some good ideas.

The crux of the matter has been that from the start when, I as the poster for the BPA on the Forums, started back in March to RP about your Bases I was given a 11 week run around before they became Legal (just to let you know I am the 2 i/c of the BPA). Most of the Posts from the Junkers weren't even from you (the supposed Owner of these two Bases).

These are your previous threads regarding the problem. In them are quite a few suggestions just like there is in this one. I have refrained, up to now, to post in this thread as I only saw that we would end going over the same ground as before.

http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=117168
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=117170

I have mentioned, I do believe in one of the other threads, that the BAF and BPA have different jurisdictions. It is the BPA's role to sort out about Bases. BAF just end up enforcing the will of Bretonia if we have problems.

The big problem is that you have been given some ideas to RP with and yet you have failed, at every opportunity, to grasp them with both hands and try. You would rather, it seems, get the will of the Community on your side and not at least try to RP this on the Forums.

More importantly, I'd never simply degrade someone's opinion because it disagrees with my own, im pissed off for exactly that same reason. I would love to RP in any sort of sense this whole idea with the BAF or BPA, but we've already been told by those in charge "we have no interest, you can kindly **** off".

So besides being extremely insulted, we feel there's no other option left in our mind really other then to take this for ourselves here on the forums, or simply be left to be pushed aside indefinitely by those on this server that "dont care to bother with someone elses RP".

Other the SMI Fox who, of those in charge, have you tried talking to?
How much RP of contacting the Bretonian Government have you done?
Have you talked to the BPA?

And this all started due to me visiting your Base and noticing Contraband for sale. I have yet to actually submit a report about this. So in fact it isn't a case of being victimised but a perceived threat.

Please try to RP the situation about Inverness. You never know some kind of agreement can be reached. Up to now I have cut you, inRP, an awful lot of slack. Don't pull out the them and us hatred card. It isn't what you think it is.
The standing of the Junkers, in Bretonia, is different to that of the one with Liberty.
.