Announcement Regarding Rule 1.2

[Trogdor]

The admins have, for the most part, been pretty good about making fair punitive decisions. The one time I felt they made a bad judgement, I called them on it in a discussion thread, the community had a public debate, and they ended up reversing it, iirc.

If the admins tell you to stop doing something they think is harmful to the community, either stop doing it or argue your case. If you can't convince them... it was probably harmful.

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[Highland Laddie]

It's not about 'fair\unfair' stuff - it's about understanding of how admins are running the place. If rules are unclear then it's also unclear for everyone else on how to follow the said rules. The lines like 'don't troll or ban' or 'we'll ban you if we feel like' just breaks the wish to invest any effort since you can't know for sure if it's allowed or not.

It's actually not that hard, Curios. I've played on this server going on a year and a half, and never once have I been banned for trolling (or any other rule violation, for that matter). I'm also not trying to skirt the very limits of the rules, either.

If you honestly are NOT sure if something you want/intend to do may get you banned....you probably should just not do it (because it probably isn't good), and do something else instead that you KNOW will not get you banned.

Easy peasy.

[Garrett Jax]

Some observations I had since I made this announcement:

1. There are some who feel this is a new rule. It isn't. But what it means is that Staff has done a piss-poor job of enforcing it, and as a result, good people have got hurt and left. You have my apologies.

2. There is a large segment of the community breathing a huge sigh of relief. We will try and live up to the faith you put in us. It also tells us there are many who endeavor to play nice and fair, which is heartening.

3. There are quite a few that have a legitimate fear the Staff has made a massive power grab. We haven't, but hold onto that feeling, because if it keeps you from violating Rule 1.2, then everyone benefits.

4. Almost to a man, those that have complained in this thread about the announcement have had posts moderated for violating Rule 1.2.

5. Contrary to the viewpoint of some, the Staff has the best interests of this server at heart. We are the first to admit we make mistakes. I make mistakes. If you were an Admin, you would make mistakes. The measure of a man is whether he can own up to his mistakes and correct them. I feel comfortable in saying we have done this many times.

6. The ambiguity of the OP was intentional. Rule 1.2 isn't so much a rule as it is a principle. We leave it to each and every one of you to determine whether your actions are harmful to server gameplay. I provided examples that should indicate some paths to avoid. It's not that hard to figure out. If in doubt, PM one of us. We are not itching to ban people. We want you to have fun too, but appropriately.

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[Curios]

Wait a second here please. In the last point, 6 one, you write - "We leave it to each and every one of you to determine whether your actions are harmful to server gameplay." but how's so? For example I do not consider my actions to be harmful because my level of 'acceptance to heat', let's call it that way, is high. In another hand I might get reported, theoretically, by the person that had lower 'acceptance to heat' for heat being too much for his taste. It's just an example since I'm usually not going hot. But it's not the offender who's determining the level of 'trolling' or whatever it's called - I'd call it a challenge.

As I said it's just adds to a mess. And I'll elaborate:

Mess, in my wording, is an entropy of the server gameplay. People don't like to deal with things that dynamically change - we tend to stick to what we used to like and understand. If the wording of the rules is unclear or uncertain then it's up to person behind the desk to pull the levers that are invisible to the rest of the player base. I want to say that if we have such a rule then players are to get used NOT to the rule itself but to the people who enforce it and to their 'vision' on how it work - mean that the interpretation of the rule will change along if the person dealing with it changes (or his views on this miserable life). Anyway that adds to 'mess'.

No one likes to deal with the mess.

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[Curios]

In fact, you know what? Do what you want - anyway I said everything I wanted to say in regard to this rule. And I see that administration stuff is hard in believe that it's for good, mean all our moaning here is pointless so let's just lay back and see how it cooks up in perspective of reality.

P.S. Read my posts with positive feeling - we're just discussing things, thanks ) (and don't report for 1.2)

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[Garrett Jax]

I know you are a man of intelligence, Curios. Trolling and harassing a person/faction to the point of harming server gameplay is not something someone does by accident. It is a deliberate act/s that are meant to create OORP grief on others. It doesn't take someone of your level of intelligence to understand that. I provided examples to help the community to understand what sort of actions we are observing that are harmful. If everyone is mindful of Rule 1.2 when they play, there will be no mess.

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[Curios]

Well, as I said, let it be. It is clear that admins had to ban some various gentleman in before w\o problems and the word in the text is just marking this ability to officially exist. However I just expect a rain of reports on you from people who try to reach some avenges through this way or feel bad or something, whatever the reason.

And we all know that as amount of reports increase, the quality of reviews of those reports (might) decrease. With kind of reversed effect as it is expected. But well, try out. Your sarcasm is nois, indeed.

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[Thyrzul]

6. The ambiguity of the OP was intentional. Rule 1.2 isn't so much a rule as it is a principle. We leave it to each and every one of you to determine whether your actions are harmful to server gameplay. I provided examples that should indicate some paths to avoid. It's not that hard to figure out. If in doubt, PM one of us. We are not itching to ban people. We want you to have fun too, but appropriately.

1.) And in what way does it matter? If I'm reported for trolling but I say I've done nothing wrong, because I myself determined that my actions weren't harmful to server gameplay, what will you do? Let me go unpunished?

2.) Examples are just that: examples. One can try to guess the logic you tried to imply with them, but if the guess is wrong one can get into trouble quickly, because of what? Ambiguity? And of course we have a punishment system where the punishment arrives before the sanctioned could have a chance to defend himself.

The point is not the existence or lack of intent to follow the rules, to guess what it is you call the spirit of the rules, but the ability, or lack of it, to do so. We, the players, are to stay within barely defined boundaries, and I believe it can be quite annoying to be branded as harmful for the community simply because of misinterpretation different interpretation of something unclear, regardless of intent.

3.) When are we to PM you? Every time we think of trying something out we might find interesting, and most probably within the spirit of the rules, but want to make sure not to end up sanctioned? Wouldn't it be easier to clear the fog than having to deal with the PMs of all those you are leaving in doubt?

EDIT:

I know you are a man of intelligence, Curios. Trolling and harassing a person/faction to the point of harming server gameplay is not something someone does by accident. It is a deliberate act/s that are meant to create OORP grief on others. It doesn't take someone of your level of intelligence to understand that. I provided examples to help the community to understand what sort of actions we are observing that are harmful. If everyone is mindful of Rule 1.2 when they play, there will be no mess.

1.) Could you define that point? (Oh, I bet I sound like somebody asking how far he can get away with trolling now. Explainition in my next paragraph.)

2.) And I provided examples which I believe some on the receiving end could easily interpret as ooRP trolling and harassment while it (in my interpretation) seems to be nothing but inRP. Now if there are two different interpretations from two different players of the same thing, none of them will matter in the end, because Admins make the final decision, what they think is what matters. And I want to know that, to make sure not to cross the line I shouldn't. Not even by accident.

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[Jihadjoe]

In response to your paragraphs about oligarchies:
1) I do not see the point of the paragraphs upon paragraphs of rules, if 1.2 simply covers everything.
2) I do not see the point of the paragraphs upon paragraphs of rules, if this an oligarchy which can do whatever it wants.
3) If there are rules, then there must be self-imposed limits on the oligarchy.
4) If there is a rule which allows all rules to be ignored, then there are no rules.

Yes. Any and all rules are at root illegitimate and pointless. They are created and enforced by subjective individuals based on their perception of the world, which is different from person to person. Thankfully there is enough common ground between peoples' moral and perceptive standpoints to make the majority of law appear reasonable.

In this environment, the oligarchy is not that fickle. It has a fairly constant set of demands on peoples' behaviour. You are expected to roleplay, you are expected to treat each other with civility ooc, etc. These things do not change. The rules can be regarded as "including but not limited to..."

Were the rules to try to cover every eventuality, and set the entire code of behaviour in stone, then it would be a totally impossible document to create or intake. It would be be infnitely long... On top of that, it is worth noting that not only do the requirements of the rulers change, but so do the needs of those who are ruled over. This is relevent to the next section.

The oligarchy does have a self imposed limit, and that is that major abuses of the system would result in the oligarchy ruling over an empty community. The people who choose to become part of running something so minor as this (with no real power by which to be lured, and no tangible personal gain to be had), would presumably choose to become one of those oligarchs because they love the community in some way. None of the people invested in running the show want to see it end, and therefore it is in their interests to be benevolent and well-meaning to the people over whom they rule.

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[Mephistoles]

A ten page thread when really all that needs to be said and done is don't be a fffffffffffffffffffffffff and just enjoy the damn game with your fellow space nerds.

If you're so afraid of fffffffffffs being banned, don't be a fffffffffff.

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