Where is the thin line...?

[Thyrzul]

Where is the thin line between enforcing inRP consequences of one's actions and powergaming?

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[Oldum]

From my past experience, that's a relative question ... because it all depends on which faction you speak of, who it's leader is and how good is that given leader in getting away with it. Sorry for the sarcasm, but there were events like these in the past and will be in the future. It's almost like the world is working atm, the one with more influence wins. . .

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[Valarin]

Imagine yourself in the other guys' position and think whether or not it'd be bad play to enforce harshly, etc. A little respect to the player behind a character goes a long way.

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Valarin: Characters & Feedback

[Jinx]

powergaming is

- putting another player into a situation where he has no choice left. - often applied with an offer of choice that cannot be fulfilled

- an example is what the corsairs did back then to zoners "asking zoners to deny docking rights to other groups which was not possible by ID rules as other factions were simply able to dock, no matter what"

- it is similar to the piracy rule "must make a reasonable demand" - meaning, even in the position of the hunter, you have to give the victim a chance/a choice. you cannot ask a trader for 3 billion credits or be destroyed, because the trader simply cannot fulfil that demand, even if he wanted.



so if you make a demand that cannot be met - and apply pvp as a consequence, it is pvp abuse - and as far as i know ... sanctionable at least in piracy situations.

cannon once made it quite clear

you can make such roleplay if it is multilaterally agreed on by all involved parties, but you must not do it unilaterally against another player or group that disagrees with it.

in all cases you must adhere to the limitations of the ID. - when you are hostile, you have more options to extort and threaten, when you are neutral you have less, when you are ally, well, you must act like an ally. ( i assume you talk about the order zoner thing )



in general - that is what we have admins for - to determine "case by case" when roleplay is not in line with the ID anymore and when it starts to harm other players gameplay experiences

personally i d say - "if my roleplay causes other players harm - or if they made it clear that they do not want to follow that roleplay anymore ( if i was the initiator of that roleplay of course ) - then i cease doing it"

the goal of this roleplay server should not be too competitive but ones roleplay should enrich the experience for all involved players ( not just the initiator and neutral spectators )


edit:

- server history however shows that "ppl who are not involved prefer to stand back and watch / enjoy"
- pvp dominates RP and is applied as a "punishment" - sometimes crossing the line of harrassment
- i think there has been no case where admins have stepped in to stop powergaming on such a scale - as far as i remember - warning were only given for small scale cases "where player had killed another player inRP - permanently - without the other players consent"

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Jack_Henderson]

I am assuming this is about serious roleplay, not about a silly on server situation. I imagine it is about character killing, capture, etc...

In all other roleplay communities where there was no chance mechanism (like dices, percentages, etc) there is the so called "Opferregel", roughly translatable as "The victim/affected party decides" rule.

Whatever you want to do to some other character, you can only try. He decides whether it works and how it works.

You can say: "I shoot him 400 times and kill him". (typical powergaming attitude, pretty widespread)
Answer: "Only one shot hits and it is a grace. My character escapes."

You can only reach the outcome you are aiming at by compromising and by cooperating with the other player.

That's where roleplay starts that feels good for both involved parties and takes out all those idiotic ego trips that one comes across rather frequently in internet roleplay communities where people still think they have to roleplay against each other as players.

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[Thyrzul]

What if the other party deliberately roleplays knowing this? Let's say my policeman character is to arrest a murderer, and the player plays along, let's the character being arrested, brought to court, then sentenced to, let's say, death. And then when they are at the death row, said player changes his mind and doesn't want his character to die, even despite at that point the actions of his character have led him into a situation with no options left, although it is not him who's enforcing said situation. What is the outcome expected in such situations?

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[Jack_Henderson]

What if the other party deliberately roleplays knowing this? Let's say my policeman character is to arrest a murderer, and the player plays along, let's the character being arrested, brought to court, then sentenced to, let's say, death. And then when they are at the death row, said player changes his mind and doesn't want his character to die, even despite at that point the actions of his character have led him into a situation with no options left, although it is not him who's enforcing said situation. What is the outcome expected in such situations?

Jailbreak.
Sudden pardon.
broker a deal.
...
(creativity + cooperation in finding something that works)

and if everything fails: ignore the whole roleplay if it can't be salvaged. It will however always be dissatisfying.

In my roleplay experience, the victim has only suddenly changed its opinion if the communication and cooperation was bad before. Knowing what outcomes are acceptable (especially in live-death rp) is important.

I have played detectives for 5 years and never ever executed a player-character criminal. It's standard. At the start I was angry about that, in the end I learnt to have fun with the roleplay process and not focus on the ultimate outcome.

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[Thyrzul]

I did not mention any specific scenario for a reason, and that reason is to keep flame wars away from here. If you can't keep your crap out of this thread, I will ask an Orange to do it for you.

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[Petitioner]

One time I was playing an indy LPI, sitting by Manhattan, eating donuts, as LPI officers do.
Someone else came up and started to be rude to me, act threatening, and refuse to cooperate when I told him to stop. Obviously, I told him to stand his ground and to certainly not dock with any stations, because I was going to write him a fine. What does he do? Docks with Newark.

In real life, you do what the cop says and complain in the appropriate channels after. In roleplay, you ignore what the cop says because nobody can make you do anything, no matter how reasonable it might be, and so roleplaying any sort of authority figure is pointless.

Go figure, huh?

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[Petitioner]

(Unless, of course, they're in an official faction and can FR5 you. Otherwise, it's all voluntary, aka, "I'll do it if I benefit somehow.")