(09-22-2014, 07:50 AM)Snak3 Wrote: Then you can shoot down one who refuses to halt as per rules, but not make new piracy demand? If that's the case, it's stupid.
No, because "Halt" does not equate to beginning an engagement. You have to drop their shields 50%, and if, in that time, you cannot at least say "2millordai" (or something...), you have more pressing issues than whether you're in a fight or not...
(09-22-2014, 07:50 AM)Snak3 Wrote: Then you can shoot down one who refuses to halt as per rules, but not make new piracy demand? If that's the case, it's stupid.
No, because "Halt" does not equate to beginning an engagement. You have to drop their shields 50%, and if, in that time, you cannot at least say "2millordai" (or something...), you have more pressing issues than whether you're in a fight or not...
Humor me for a minute and join in my hypothetical situation.
You're on a ship that can only pirate outside of House space, waiting neat the jumpgate or hole into house space, but currently are not in it. You CD a 5k carrying valuable cargo, and tell him something along the lines of "Halt." Before you can finish typing out a demand as to specifics, such as paying a few mil, or that he drop his cargo, he thrusts away without saying anything and goes through the hole/gate.
The problem is that the rules are not clear in regard to this. One could argue that a demand to halt IS a demand, or that a demand hasn't been made until the pirate asks for something specific. Should pirates tell traders to stop and make a demand in one line, or should they have to make it on separate lines? One could easily tell a ship to halt, demand something such as money from them, and tell them that if they don't they'll be engaged all on one line.
Halt isn't an engagement, that's not the problem, the problem is if Halt is a demand, and the rules are too vague on this.
(09-21-2014, 08:03 AM)Echo 7-7 Wrote: A single, continuous engagement is legal if the aggressors follow the relevant rules for the location at the start of the engagement.
In plain english: you can chase your targets where ever they go, but if they manage to escape well beyond scanner range when they've jumped to a new system, the initial engagement is over.
The scanner range of which ship? The range of the aggressors scanner, or the range of the attacked ship? With the new system scanners work on, trade ships can easily mount Battleship scanners, and thus have a huge advantage over pirates. So, what defines "well beyond scanner range?" Is it an arbitrary amount, such as 10k? Is it the scanner rnage of the attacking ship? Cause that will lead to lots of sanctions being filed with no actual grounds for it.
The problem here isn't entirely rules that aren't clearly defined, it's rules that are outdated.
Just realized I went on a bit of a tangent here, but the point is still valid.
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To be fair, you could always park yourself at a gate that doesn't lead straight out of your ZoI instead. I'm assuming the 'can pirate outside of House space' clause is on the ID as Junkers intend to keep a lawful reputation within the Houses. Blatantly pirating right in House space, even if you caught someone outside it, seems to contradict that aim.
(09-22-2014, 07:50 AM)Snak3 Wrote: Then you can shoot down one who refuses to halt as per rules, but not make new piracy demand? If that's the case, it's stupid.
No, because "Halt" does not equate to beginning an engagement. You have to drop their shields 50%, and if, in that time, you cannot at least say "2millordai" (or something...), you have more pressing issues than whether you're in a fight or not...
But you can shoot someone if it doesn't stop after proper verbal demand to halt was given.
(09-22-2014, 12:56 PM)Haste Wrote: To be fair, you could always park yourself at a gate that doesn't lead straight out of your ZoI instead. I'm assuming the 'can pirate outside of House space' clause is on the ID as Junkers intend to keep a lawful reputation within the Houses. Blatantly pirating right in House space, even if you caught someone outside it, seems to contradict that aim.
This would be great in practice, but since the majority of connections between houses are only one system between what is deemed House space for quasi-lawful piracy, and a huge lack of Junker bases outside of House space, it makes it a lot less practical.
(09-22-2014, 12:35 PM)Max Morse Wrote: You're on a ship that can only pirate outside of House space, waiting neat the jumpgate or hole into house space, but currently are not in it. You CD a 5k carrying valuable cargo, and tell him something along the lines of "Halt." Before you can finish typing out a demand as to specifics, such as paying a few mil, or that he drop his cargo, he thrusts away without saying anything and goes through the hole/gate.
I believe you have not yet engaged him or issued a "demand", so he got away? Maybe if you either a) pirate some 10 from the hole or b) make your opening "Halt and drop that cargo now"?
(09-22-2014, 12:35 PM)Max Morse Wrote: The scanner range of which ship? The range of the aggressors scanner, or the range of the attacked ship? With the new system scanners work on, trade ships can easily mount Battleship scanners, and thus have a huge advantage over pirates. So, what defines "well beyond scanner range?" Is it an arbitrary amount, such as 10k? Is it the scanner rnage of the attacking ship? Cause that will lead to lots of sanctions being filed with no actual grounds for it.
Interesting question, could be applied to any of the rules covering what is and is not a continuing engagement. Especially if the pirate has gotten a cargo scanner variant so as to go after specific commodities or whatever.
(09-22-2014, 01:02 PM)Snak3 Wrote: But you can shoot someone if it doesn't stop after proper verbal demand to halt was given.
So, as I understand it,
"Halt"
Trader flies on
Pirate opens fire
Shields drop to 60%
Trader docks with jump hole
Trader gets away
or
"Halt"
Trader flies on
Pirate opens fire
Shields drop to 40%
Trader docks with jump hole
Pirate can follow and continue.
TBH, I find the whole thing a tad off-putting. In my opinion, the semi-lawful factions should really have some kind of distance from trade lanes limitation to piracy while in house space or something...I mean, if a Junker catches you in the debris fields of Texas, or a Hogosha finds you in one of Kusari's many dust clouds/nebulas, miles from the nearest military base, it's not like the law is around to keep a close eye on things...
(09-22-2014, 12:56 PM)Haste Wrote: To be fair, you could always park yourself at a gate that doesn't lead straight out of your ZoI instead. I'm assuming the 'can pirate outside of House space' clause is on the ID as Junkers intend to keep a lawful reputation within the Houses. Blatantly pirating right in House space, even if you caught someone outside it, seems to contradict that aim.
Quite simply, by following your target into house space you run the risk of drawing lawful attention. That should be a player choice to do so or not, rather than getting curbstomped by a rule that doesn't exist.
/setmsg 1 #t, halt and give me 3 million credits or I'll shoot!
/setmsg 2 #t, halt and drop your cargo or I'll shoot!
/setmsg 3 #t, halt and give me 15 million credits or I'll shoot!