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(05-10-2015, 04:52 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:
(05-10-2015, 04:50 PM)John Wildkins Wrote: Still, the timing of this was pretty garbage, if I'm honest.
It's a perfect example of a loophole to this change and to why it doesn't work. You've got a hostile group with hostile/uncooperative intentions right on the Liberty border. Yet, an ID change like this renders the house absolutely powerless to do anything about it.
heh
"powerless"
there's a faction right around here somewhere...
(05-10-2015, 04:06 PM)jammi Wrote: 99% sure this has absolutely nothing to do with the fiasco in PR. The admin team doesn't discuss changes on this level that quickly. This'll likely have been in the pipework for weeks, if not longer, in order to ensure as many team members as possible have given their input.
Today is not a great day for me to devote much time to explanation on why these ID changes were made. I will say that this has been discussed and voted on a couple weeks ago. Prior to that, we made a change to the same ID's a few months ago and ended up reverting it, because we failed to take into consideration the fact that Gallia was it's own animal and it wasn't sensible to make this change for them, given that they spend most of their time outside Gallia house space as an invading force.
This change was made primarily to help Unlawful/Corporate/Quasi-lawful factions have a bit more breathing room to engage each other, without having to worry about being FR5'd or face other dire consequences from House Governments.
This change should give Bounty Hunters an opportunity to operate in independent systems where House law is not enforced, yet protection is desperately needed. This change was purposely made to give systems outside House space that "Wild West", Space is Dangerous feel.
There is obviously going to be some emotion with every change that is made. And with every change, you must give it time to see how things play out and possibly make tweaks here and there, as needed. Rebelling against the system, as was mentioned in some posts here, is not advised.
(05-10-2015, 04:50 PM)John Wildkins Wrote: Still, the timing of this was pretty garbage, if I'm honest.
It's a perfect example of a loophole to this change and to why it doesn't work. You've got a hostile group with hostile/uncooperative intentions right on the Liberty border. Yet, an ID change like this renders the house absolutely powerless to do anything about it.
heh
"powerless"
there's a faction right around here somewhere...
Their base in Puerto Rico, which is outside of house space, does not allow LSF ships to dock. Considering the recent ID changes that wouldn't count as breaking a one of liberty's laws.
Where's your suitable justification for FR5ing them?
(05-10-2015, 04:50 PM)John Wildkins Wrote: Still, the timing of this was pretty garbage, if I'm honest.
It's a perfect example of a loophole to this change and to why it doesn't work. You've got a hostile group with hostile/uncooperative intentions right on the Liberty border. Yet, an ID change like this renders the house absolutely powerless to do anything about it.
His own government ordered a cease fire not an hour after this announcement. This announcement would not have changed the current situation involving PR.
(05-10-2015, 04:50 PM)John Wildkins Wrote: Still, the timing of this was pretty garbage, if I'm honest.
It's a perfect example of a loophole to this change and to why it doesn't work. You've got a hostile group with hostile/uncooperative intentions right on the Liberty border. Yet, an ID change like this renders the house absolutely powerless to do anything about it.
His own government ordered a cease fire not an hour after this announcement. This announcement would not have changed the current situation involving PR.
It would as the LN are no longer allowed to siege the base because the ID prevents them from doing so. As interesting as it would be, Junkers are not a house.
(05-10-2015, 04:50 PM)John Wildkins Wrote: Still, the timing of this was pretty garbage, if I'm honest.
It's a perfect example of a loophole to this change and to why it doesn't work. You've got a hostile group with hostile/uncooperative intentions right on the Liberty border. Yet, an ID change like this renders the house absolutely powerless to do anything about it.
His own government ordered a cease fire not an hour after this announcement. This announcement would not have changed the current situation involving PR.
It would as the LN are no longer allowed to siege the base because the ID prevents them from doing so. As interesting as it would be, Junkers are not a house.
I'm confused, my reading and interpretation of the new ID changes leads me to believe they can still conduct operations against "unlawful" issues. And as they are law can't they continue along the path they have chosen?
Anyway, this is a very welcome change. The independent worlds were always intended to be just that, independent.
The houses in their deluded grasp for power had completely eliminated the whole concept of "outside of house space", and it's sad that it took a rule change to bring them in line.
While it may require fine tuning, I wholeheartedly welcome this change. I'll leave it at that because I'm not having the same discussion here as I did in official faction leaders chat.
(05-10-2015, 05:04 PM)Garrett Jax Wrote: This change was made primarily to help Unlawful/Corporate/Quasi-lawful factions have a bit more breathing room to engage each other, without having to worry about being FR5'd or face other dire consequences from House Governments.
This change should give Bounty Hunters an opportunity to operate in independent systems where House law is not enforced, yet protection is desperately needed. This change was purposely made to give systems outside House space that "Wild West", Space is Dangerous feel.
There is obviously going to be some emotion with every change that is made. And with every change, you must give it time to see how things play out and possibly make tweaks here and there, as needed. Rebelling against the system, as was mentioned in some posts here, is not advised.
I strongly believe that screwing over a bunch of other factions in order to increase things for a few is not a good idea. As Rohj has pointed out there's established roleplay to show why law enforcement would be interested in patrolling these systems, and suddenly telling the factions involved who made that RP that their effort is redundant is not healthy for the server. Couple that with the fact that naval and police factions being unable to engage all hostile vessels in the border worlds doesn't only lack sense, but it's also nonconstructive to their activity. I feel that to get the desired effect the admins should revert the change, then work closely with the dev team to construct an experience that can still provide fun gameplay for all these factions without bringing negatives.
Also, how come no factions were consulted about this prior? Such a major change needs as much transparency as possible in order to cause minimum upset.
(05-10-2015, 05:14 PM)Captain_Nemo Wrote:
(05-10-2015, 05:09 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:
(05-10-2015, 05:07 PM)Captain_Nemo Wrote:
(05-10-2015, 04:52 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:
(05-10-2015, 04:50 PM)John Wildkins Wrote: Still, the timing of this was pretty garbage, if I'm honest.
It's a perfect example of a loophole to this change and to why it doesn't work. You've got a hostile group with hostile/uncooperative intentions right on the Liberty border. Yet, an ID change like this renders the house absolutely powerless to do anything about it.
His own government ordered a cease fire not an hour after this announcement. This announcement would not have changed the current situation involving PR.
It would as the LN are no longer allowed to siege the base because the ID prevents them from doing so. As interesting as it would be, Junkers are not a house.
I'm confused, my reading and interpretation of the new ID changes leads me to believe they can still conduct operations against "unlawful" issues. And as they are law can't they continue along the path they have chosen?
Congress/Junkers are not a house. They aren't even unlawfuls, they're quasi-lawfuls. Meaning that the LN can now no longer do anything against them provided they are in Puerto Rico, as PR is not part of Liberty house space. ID over rides rules so the base siege and potentially all hostile matters involving Puerto Rico have to be dropped.
(05-10-2015, 05:04 PM)Garrett Jax Wrote: There is obviously going to be some emotion with every change that is made. And with every change, you must give it time to see how things play out and possibly make tweaks here and there, as needed. Rebelling against the system, as was mentioned in some posts here, is not advised.
There is a difference between some emotion and a lot of people bringing their examples of how this new change screws over how many things.
I'm surprised that people still resort to the "how about you wait and see what happens" arguement as a way to avoid addressing all the points brought up beforehand by people who actually can use their brains to think and foresee possible consequences before having to wait and experience them. I'm patiently waiting for the Admin Team to share with us what made them think that this will be an overall good idea and that the pros will outweight the cons... or whether they really thought of all the cons or not.
As for the Wild West thing, read above, there are ways to achieve that without screwing over authorities.
Edit: Damn Lyth, you ninja... anyways...
(05-10-2015, 05:18 PM)ALG Wrote: The houses in their deluded grasp for power had completely eliminated the whole concept of "outside of house space", and it's sad that it took a rule change to bring them in line.
I can't remember any house authority excercising their powers further than one system from house borders, systems like Omicrons, the majority of Omegas (with the exception of maybe 4 systems maximum), T37 are all fine. One would think it would be logical for house authorities to protect house assets in systems apparently not listed as house space under server rules, but apparently looking for logic here is a futile effort, it's Disco after all, isn't it?
(05-10-2015, 05:20 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Congress/Junkers are not a house. They aren't even unlawfuls, they're quasi-lawfuls. Meaning that the LN can now no longer do anything against them provided they are in Puerto Rico, as PR is not part of Liberty house space. ID over rides rules so the base siege and potentially all hostile matters involving Puerto Rico have to be dropped.
I'm still confused though, the ID states "Zone of Influence: Liberty, systems directly bordering Liberty" doesn't PR fall into that category, I feel like there is something I missed