(10-27-2016, 04:11 PM)The Unioners Wrote: One well flown fighter can be a problem for three fighters. Even a well piloted gunboat isn't going to be too much of a problem for three smart fighters.
I'm not sure why you think that quote holds any water whatsoever. A complete melon like me could stave off three VHFs in a gunboat, let alone if you let someone like Jayce, Wesker or a few others fly the thing. You can say it over and over again, but it doesn't make it right - you'd need at least five fighters to dent a well-known gunboat on the best of days, and I wouldn't even feel comfortable attacking a gunboat with that number myself.
Please stop perpetrating the myth that gunboats are easy to kill in snubs. On paper it's very simple given the hull/shield numbers and fighter DPS, but in practice snubs get shredded for even the brief few seconds they take to apply damage on their target.
(10-27-2016, 04:11 PM)The Unioners Wrote: One well flown fighter can be a problem for three fighters. Even a well piloted gunboat isn't going to be too much of a problem for three smart fighters.
I'm not sure why you think that quote holds any water whatsoever. A complete melon like me could stave off three VHFs in a gunboat, let alone if you let someone like Jayce, Wesker or a few others fly the thing. You can say it over and over again, but it doesn't make it right - you'd need at least five fighters to dent a well-known gunboat on the best of days, and I wouldn't even feel comfortable attacking a gunboat with that number myself.
Please stop perpetrating the myth that gunboats are easy to kill in snubs. On paper it's very simple given the hull/shield numbers and fighter DPS, but in practice snubs get shredded for even the brief few seconds they take to apply damage on their target.
Omi is right.
Gunboats are far from easy pickings if the pilot is good enough.
I disagree, the gunboats were not better then, now there balanced. And TS/TZ was the best thing that happened to disco ever. Now, if u fly a anti cap gb u'll get killed by 3 even 2 good snub fighters, if u have an anti snub setup u'll be killed by other caps easely, and if u go in between the both ull be average in both situations, so - BALANCE
There's one very big issue when we want to balance stuff:
We balance out things on basis of the experienced players, leaving the newbies on their own and peak is rising every time the "balance" patch is introduced. This is clearly visible in case of snubs - as now, with guided missile removal, newbies DO NOT have any chance to even have a fair fight. They are not simply killed right now - they are butchered to pieces in an even faster manner than before.
Can we finally start to balance things on basis what the average players can do?
We're playing caplancer anyways, so people will always come with the argument that they're more comfortable in caps and if you don't like being stomped by those, you better fly one yourself. TS/TZ did its own thing to help with that. Sure it's a needed on larger ships, but gunboats shouldn't have it.
All in all, what @Omicega said is painfully true.
DIvine, gunboats are not overpowered, I fly them for a long time now and they are my favorite ships. Im average with'em and 3 snubs kill me, but thats the whole point they are cobsiderd small caps so it would be unreasonable if 1 or 2 snubs could kill you, its all about the player skill and not so much about the numbers. I a player like Wesker or Jayce can demolish 4 or 5 snubs u must understand thet they are a great minority of people who can do that, 85% of gb pilots will get decimated by 3 or more snubs and most newbies by 2. and also when we talk about Cruisers a gb pilot also has to be very good and only a handfull of gb pilots can solo an average cruiser pilot. Thanx for this thread its really good
They're just a little too good at what they do right now is the thing, at least in regards to their anti snub capability. Anticap I can't say, mostly because I haven't had many gunboats used against any caps very often and haven't flown them against any caps since ~2010.
The best option imo is a more serious reduction in turret zoom, as right now the zoom ratio compared to any other ship class is much higher (meaning the gunboat is the smallest of all caps you can zoom out on when they should all be about the same size.)
I ultimately dropped the subject after repeatedly getting told no in the balance chat, so they're probably going to remain the more or less unbeatable (1:3 ratio) anti snub meta for the forseeable future.
For anyone who thinks I'm talking out my ass here, I took the time to go ingame, do size comps, and measure the sizes of four of the smallest ships of their class - the Defiant, Resheph, Interdictor, and Osiris - by their length in pixels in GIMP.
As you can see, the difference between the smallest and largest there is a whopping 72%. It may not look like much with those screenshots, but that's a significant difference in combat, and I welcome any argument against the standardization of zoom levels between classes because I really do not see a solid reason for it.
FURTHERMORE, it needs to be taken into account that the larger spread of turrets on larger ship classes and their distance from the ship's center of mass makes hitting targets more difficult the larger the ship you're using becomes. You simply end up with more spread, and one battleship secondary or solaris hitting is a lot less terrifying than a full volley of six gunboat turrets slamming your ship at once with a much faster refire.
If anything, that poses a very solid argument for an inverse zoom ratio, with less distance on smaller ships and a larger zoom distance on bigger ones. This would also arguably give battleships a much needed buff, as they're probably one of - if not the most - underpowered class in the game at present.
@"Edison Trent" The hell you posted? It's unreasonable for 2 snubs to kill a gunboat? When two snubs can destroy a gunboat, then the player behind the cap does absolutely know nothing about how to fly that thing and it's a wonder he don't get stuck with it in asteroids so bad that the Admins have to rescue him.
What you generally fail to comprehend is that there's usually not just x-number of snubs vs 1 gunboat but x-number of snubs vs 1 gunboat and maybe 1 more, or snubs alongside it. So we're suddenly off with a 2vs2 or 2vs3 and if we're really lucky, it's 2 gunboats and 3 snubs and not the other way around.
And 2 halfway decently flown gunboats can be overkill to literally any combination of fighters regardless of how good they're.
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