Well, that's what you get for rolling with the poorest faction in sirius :P
honestly though, it's been said in this thread and others... if a gunboat goes full-missile loadout he might own fighters/bombers but he's useless against transports and other capships.
i'm completely against any weapons requiring ammo as well. Very few players choose to use missiles on their fighters because the ammo costs outweigh the benefits the missile provides. The same goes for Torpedoes - nobody uses torpedo launchers over the supernova cannon anymore because the snova requires no ammo, has a higher travel speed, and does more damage.
So yea, if missile turrets are as effective as everyone claims, it might suck for the guys in fighters/bombers, but hey... gunboats were designed to fight those types of targets (well, fighters at least). Be glad that the same gunboat will get his ass kicked by any other capship out there and there isnt a thing he can do about it - no more than you can do about getting destroyed by the gunboat with missile turrets.
' Wrote:i'm completely against any weapons requiring ammo as well. Very few players choose to use missiles on their fighters because the ammo costs outweigh the benefits the missile provides. The same goes for Torpedoes - nobody uses torpedo launchers over the supernova cannon anymore because the snova requires no ammo, has a higher travel speed, and does more damage.
So yea, if missile turrets are as effective as everyone claims, it might suck for the guys in fighters/bombers, but hey... gunboats were designed to fight those types of targets (well, fighters at least). Be glad that the same gunboat will get his ass kicked by any other capship out there and there isnt a thing he can do about it - no more than you can do about getting destroyed by the gunboat with missile turrets.
When you have ammo you have to be carefull and concentrated when to fire which projectile.... and idea of making GB's missile ammo is fantastic! Now...GB missiles need maybe a bit nerfing (due to speed, Mjolnir posted this problem before) ...
But full missile loadouts... That thing i will never understand... only skill you need for that is finger pressing fire missiles button.. but that is just me...
The other day in NY there were Hackers (4 extraordinary pilots) owning all lawfuls and then 5 of Xenos came... it was fantastic fight (laggy as hell, though) but then LH gunship with missile loadout came.. and in 2 minutes he took down 4 eagles.... it makes you wander only one question... WHY?... It was balanced fight and then someone like that guy comes and ruins it completely!!! Very sad! But i bet he was happy and proud cause his skills in using missile GB took down 4 Eagles...
Thing that worries me is that i am seeing more and more Gbs with 4,5,6 or full missile loadout.... That is just wrong!! (IMO) And everybody constantly saying USE FIGHTERS; USE BOMBERS... some of us are and will continue to try...
Now about torpedoes... I am using Sunslayers on almost all of my fighters... Why? Cause when I fight any vanilla ship and i hit it on hull he is dead and when i am fighting and non-vanilla ship in 2-3 hits i strip down all of his guns... And that is why Torpedoes are useful .. just like mines!
Leave GB missile turret as it is and make ammo for them so when you fire one turret you loose 2 missiles out of 70! Then when you fire 5 turrets you loose 10 missiles... and after 7 salvos you are empty!!! I think then all GB would not use more than 3 (which is still way to much!!!)
Skoko
EDIT: I am thinking about GB with 3 missile turrets and I am completley sure that is still way to much for 2,3 fighters to dodge... maybe less than 70 missiles in cargo space (due to their size)
Oh and btw I am not good pilot, just average... so sorry for posting here:P
The max ammo carried by any ship for a specific weapon type is 70. Even if you have four missile launchers, you can only have 70 ammo for all of them if they're the same type of launcher.
Almost every ship in the game can use countermeasures - which have the same amount of 'ammo'. With a minimal amount of luck and skill, the target ship could easily run you out of ammunition and remain unharmed.
Further, while I was testing the liberty gunboat with 4 missile turrets in open singleplayer, it took an average of four to six volleys of missiles to destroy a nomad fighter, and more to destroy a BH hammerhead fighter. That's around 16-24 missiles used per target, which would leave the ship with no ammunition (and therefor zero ability to fight) after only 3-4 enemies.
Chances are, that ship would not be able to finish any missions for cash, and would end up unable to afford it's own ammo in a very short amount of time.
So please, no ammo requirements. I think they should take ammo requirements off of fighter missile launchers as well, maybe people would use them more often if that were the case.
i am really happy that you like the zoner gunboat much, seriously. - but you must understand that the zoners are not a fighting faction. - their interest is not to overwhelm others, but to be among themselves, - protected. they live their ways - and they chose a living that is quite on the edge of a knife. - they must never make a false step or they might trip and fall, - and that could very easily become a very painful mistake.
now the concept of the gunboat was never a ship that was able to go one on one against another gunboat, since gunboats are mostly purely military ships. - since the zoners are not a military faction, but have a great understanding of it - and shipbuilding, they need a ship that serves their purpose.
they want to trade, sometimes smuggle - or just explore and travel. - for that, you need cargo, you need a small size ( untill now, they make mostly use of the dromedary ) and you need teeth. - but you don t need teeth to bite, - you need them to show them to others.
the concept is just like the juggernaut. - its not meant to fight, allthough it can - and that pretty well... but the concept of that ship is to be there and tell others that "it could be painful to go for it, more painful than its worth". the zoner gunboat is meant to be like that.... a medium sized transport with something like 750 or 1k cargo, enough to supply basicly any spacestation the zoners have. armoured well enough to be protected from anyone foolish enough to attack it - well armed enough to make it painful for any attacker.
the idea is not to kill, but to scare. - when i pirate sees a zoner gunboat and a transport, he ll go for the transport. when he attacked a zoner gunboat once, he should think twice the next time he goes for it. - the ship is build to bite back while it retreats. four gunboat turrets - thats as many as the kusari gunboat, and thats a military vessel. furthermore, 4 gunboat turrets that are build on one line, making it more precise to shoot ( well, thats just a minor benefit ) - in addition, it ll have a minedropper - so it can be quite a pain for even bombers. bombers often joust a gunboat ( and i don t expect it to be on the less agile side - i suggested to igiss to give it a above average agility ) - when the gunboat leaves a few nuke mines in the path, it adds greatly to the defense.
but i have to admit, - this gunboat will not be able to win against any military gunboat, unless the competition involves bringing a certain amount of cargo so some point. - it will be a real good allround ship though. - defended enough so its not pirated for fun, armed enough so that it can fire back easily, agile enough to escape any situation.
don t use it the way you use a gunboat - think of it as an armoured transport in the borderworlds where the designers got carried away - and not of a gunboat with weak stats. and well, the concept was made for the peaceful zoners, not for the order. if i have had the order in mind, i would have made something with 8 turrets for sure, cause the only real threat the order faces is the scorpion gunboat from the nomads / wild with its 8 turrets.
anyway, i m not sure what stats legenations order gunboat will have. - but by the looks, its definitely on the bigger side, so maybe he gave it 8 turret hardpoints - i think it has no fore gun.
I realize that jinx, and the background I have for the zoner gunboat my character will be using is as a stealth ship, not a heavy combat ship. It fits with that, especially since it has less firepower than other gunboats - it puts more focus on stealth and avoidance than open combat.
But the fact of the matter is... no matter what faction you belong to, you're going to have to fight eventually. I'm only trying to maximize my ability in the ship when it comes to that.
This post was made to help me decide which direction to take it's weaponry, nothing more. I've heard that missile turrets were awesome/overpowered/whatever, and I wanted some pilots more experienced in going up against them or using them to respond so I could get an idea of how effective the weapons actually are. The issue is deciding what kind of armament to use, not what's overpowered or what people think should be changed balance-wise.
I was either going to go full heavy armament (4x battle razors or 2x razors / 2x infernos), or anti-fighter armament (4x missile turrets or 4x order/solaris turrets). I needed some opinions to decide on which route to go.
As it stands, chances are i'll be going with the missile turrets and act as an anti-fighter/bomber escort for the order's larger ships, which are often left vulnerable or defenseless against those opponents. Aside from black squadron members, nearly every order pilot I see in minor/100/delta is using gunboats, cruisers, or dreadnaughts. I think they have the anti-capship thing covered, but they'd get owned constantly by bombers if BS's fighters werent around for backup. If I make my zoner gunboat effective against the immediate threat, I'll be more effective and valuable in group pvp situations.
EDIT:
And to be honest i'm not all that fond of the order gunboat being designed. Not only is it exceedingly large and bulky looking, but the color scheme and shape dont fit a secretive organizaiton like the order. It isnt sleek, it doesnt look stealthy at all, and no amount of firepower will make up for those facts.
That's one reason I like the zoner gunboat design so much - it LOOKS like a stealth-capable ship, it's sleek and small, and it doesnt have unnecessary adornments. Simple and effective is how the order's ships should be designed.
' Wrote:The max ammo carried by any ship for a specific weapon type is 70. Even if you have four missile launchers, you can only have 70 ammo for all of them if they're the same type of launcher.
Almost every ship in the game can use countermeasures - which have the same amount of 'ammo'. With a minimal amount of luck and skill, the target ship could easily run you out of ammunition and remain unharmed.
Further, while I was testing the liberty gunboat with 4 missile turrets in open singleplayer, it took an average of four to six volleys of missiles to destroy a nomad fighter, and more to destroy a BH hammerhead fighter. That's around 16-24 missiles used per target, which would leave the ship with no ammunition (and therefor zero ability to fight) after only 3-4 enemies.
Chances are, that ship would not be able to finish any missions for cash, and would end up unable to afford it's own ammo in a very short amount of time.
So please, no ammo requirements. I think they should take ammo requirements off of fighter missile launchers as well, maybe people would use them more often if that were the case.
I tested cannonballs + sidewinder combo on NPCs myself and after first hit hull is lowered on some 20-30 % on any NPC i fought ... after that next salvo only takes few % of NPC hull... and you have to switch to guns for finishing job cause hammerheads loose all destructible parts and explosives aren't so effective like before...
Now when you using missiles you have to be careful when and why are you firing them cause you have only certain number of them! And that is the trick...you can't constantly pressing missile launch button but think when and why are you launching them!!! I hope if Gb missile turrets get ammo same thing will happen.. you will not only use missile but you will combine guns and missiles to achieve your goals!
Imagine fighter fight with me using 2xParalizers 2xSidewinders and 2xCannonballs without any ammo in use... I would just keep pressing my missile launch button ..and you would dodge .. but you can't dodge forever.. and i can keep pressing my launch button forever cause i don't have ammo! And you have guns loadout and you can't touch me... (I mean you could with CDs, but with few tricks you really couldn't touch me)... would that be fun for you? NO! ... fun and display skills for me? NO! So I say Limit Gb ammo and fire it when you sure that you will hit something!
If you want to put logic to it, think of it this way:
Fighters are small, they have very limited storage space for ammo.
Capships, such as gunboats, are much larger and have expansive cargo bays that the ammo can be stored in - in effect giving them more than enough ammo for any situation they may encounter. That's why the missile turrets have infinite ammo capacity.
EDIT:
And to be fair, missile turrets -may- be overpowered against fighters, but a gunboat equipped with all standard turrets (i.e. guns, not missiles) is nearly incapable of hitting fighters. The fighters dodge far too easily, and for all intents and purposes they're invincible against gunboats who dont have missile turrets.
Don't fly solo against missile gunboats. Get two bombers, or a fighter and a bomber, and spam CDs to screw up his engine kills and make his missiles detonate around him, wasting his energy. Once his shields are down, he'll be bombing himself as you CD him.
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