(11-27-2017, 02:29 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Rickard actually makes me think of something. Why do Unlawful factions have laws to enforce? Isn't that a complete oxymoron? I can understand a degree of space regulations but.. Eh....
Factions are defines as lawful or unlawful by the relation of the actual reigning power of their respective house towards them. An organisation being considered unlawful by a house government does not restrict said organisation from defining their own set of laws they intend to enforce. Laws themselves are in fact a certain "degree of space regulations".
That said, this lawful/unlawful classification is not always accurate at all, in a good few cases it just doesn't describe the faction well.
Because any form of working culture bases itself on laws, may they be written or unwritten. Even the most dystopical, wild and uncivilized tribe that managed to survive based that survival-ability on a set of laws. The question here is rather where is the difference between a faction like the Corsairs and Liberty. The difference is: Liberty has multiple IDs that separate the integral parts of the house - law-enforcers, military, intelligence, corporate (miners, haulers, constructeurs, recycler, erc), in Bretonia even privateers. Those all have specific IDs, while the Corsairs definitely have the same potential to have that. There is this (in my opinion) unnecessary trend of separating military and civilians - we see that at Crayter and Coalition. Did it help in some way? Did players treat Coalition military differently than Coalition civilians? And the Crayters? Not really, and similarly are unlawfuls dealing with most house-related factions, with one difference being the need to pirate a transport before being able to shoot it.
Like it or not, but every bigger faction is like a house. And every non-specified faction can have that potential as well, just like many corporate factions RP R&D and attack/escort wings. This is absolutely fine that way, even when it looks weird to see ALG having a black division for shady badass deals with the Order. But Freelancer is a dystopic world, and it's only realistic to have rich lobbies to expand in all profitable directions. If the Core wants to establish a house in the Omicrons, what speaks against it apart from ooRP hate? Log in the game and deal with it inRP. They have the goal, you can set your goal to disrupt them at achieving theirs.
(11-27-2017, 02:48 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: The story team told me that a faction being "Lawful" is defined by if it has laws to enforce or not.
But yeah, seem like there's no accurate definition.
If that would be the case, Council would be lawful. That's not the case though, even despite being allied to like half of Sirius.
Someone with about the same authority (not sure if story team or other staff member) used to tell me it's defined more in relation to the faction's respective house and stance towards the reigning authority. That's why Council are unlawful.
I think many comments are missing the actual points while being biased in one way or another as active players. But as I see it the point is that the place is a mess when players are very confused by the furrball of many now compared powers clashing at single place. When it was basically separated as Sairs vs Casts and Order vs Noms vs BHG\LN it was more sorted. The new very anticipated system design around Omegas\Omicros is not helping the case either.
(11-27-2017, 02:29 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Rickard actually makes me think of something. Why do Unlawful factions have laws to enforce? Isn't that a complete oxymoron? I can understand a degree of space regulations but.. Eh....
I think that's because some factions are still political entities that enforce their own laws. Corsairs and Outcasts are special cases in here, since they are the only "unlawful" factions to have actual planetary capital*, with their own governments - what pretty much makes them Houses on their own.
*Little correction, Commonwealth of Liberty also seems to be a mini-House, as they have their own planet. It's safe to assume all their government is placed on that planet though.
While I understand your reasons for posting, and have gained some interesting insight from your essay, I find that it is exaggerating minutiae to expound the overarching theory. Further, it relies upon a number of simple falsehoods:
Quote:There are no underdogs and there is no balance of power, making everything not realistic and uninteresting.
There is a balance of power, and there are underdogs. I'm not just talking about the Gammu AI here, but the Core, Order, and Zoners are all far weaker than player groups make them out to be. And it's well within their prerogative to be boastful about their strength - inRP - the issue here being that it has gotten into their heads ooRP, as well as many others. Also Omicron Eta was one of the worst buffer systems in the mod. Corsair and Outcast leadership at the time (and a few since who have commented about it) were glad for its removal.
Quote:[...] as well as certain rather ambitious people (mostly speaking here of @Wesker and @Lythrilux) began pushing for the underdogs (Hessians and Core) to become more powerful, [...]
Incorrect. Both factions were made more powerful by people from before those two, and never increased in power (from a game development perspective) as a sole direct result of their actions. On top of being nonsense this also verges on trial-by-forum.
Core gained Yaren/Nauru as a result of work done between not just them, but the Developers and Corsair leaders of the time. They also lost Dabadoru as a result, for what is looking like it might be permanent. Meanwhile the Hessians lost two bases in Omega-54 and only gained a stationary battleship out of it. Speaking of 54 and Rho, progress is still being made on deguarding those systems.
I'll be the first to self-deprecate, but can we keep this civil?
Quote:Order - Controlled systems - 3 (Mu, Epsilon, Sigma)
Incorrect. I understand this misconception, as they have bases in Epsilon and Sigma, but they definitely do not "control" them in the standard territorial sense. There may not be other human factions present, but their presence alone (in the face of the Nomads, no less) is not enough to accurately state that they own either of them.
Because I feel like rambling a little, I'll also bring up how the developers have gone to great lengths to provide many of the "controlled" systems in the Omicrons something new. Beyond just endless bases of their controlling faction, they have occasional corporate analogues and "localized unlawful" stations as well. Some have been met with resistance, yet these bases generally strengthen all of the factions concerned by providing a more plausible foundation for their (relative) strengths while also outlining the fact that no system (yes this means you, random member of a random group proud of their formerly-special system) is fully secure and everyone has weaknesses.
Quote:Outcasts - Settled planets - 1 (Malta)
Please examine here to find Planet Soledad's infocard. It's not much but it's home to a few. Technically, Toledo could count for the Order as well, depending on how you want to look at it. And Core only relatively recently took over Nauru.
Quote:fewer choke-points
Omicrons Gamma and Tau are two of the biggest trading bottleneck systems in the mod. They happen to belong to the Corsairs and Outcasts (respectively). Aside from connections to Sigma space, the only other exits are from Epsilon to Tohoku and Xi to Munich.
Quote:Lore problems
Corsairs and Outcasts have been stagnant for a long while now without any new interesting solars. No new planets to colonise, no new bases to populate -- and even if there are some, they just appear out of nowhere without any prior warning from the devs and no RP can be done about them. Core and Hessians, on the other hand, have recently settled new planets in Nauru and Tangier -- and this can lead to actual interesting RP which will shape how these planets will look in the further versions of the mod. On top of that, colonisation of new planets is always a great reason to involve more factions into your own diplomacy.
Nauru and Tangier's settlements aren't new, aren't guaranteed to belong to those factions forever, and are well within the reach of their adversaries. Outcasts also got Soledad, and a few new bases that are well positioned. Meanwhile the Order lost Toledo (plus a lot of people and ships, along with the Core) a few years ago which isn't something that can be truly recovered from in such a short period of time.
In regards to your proposals, I expect you might be happy with some of the contents of 4.90 Initial. As per usual these were a culmination of dev ideas and consultation with many members of the community. Then again, despite not really knowing you on a personal level, I suspect you may not be pleased, after all:
Quote:Hudson | Corile: although knowing teerin i doubt he can make actually reasonable decisions
(11-26-2017, 08:37 PM)Thunderer Wrote: You're taking this game seriously. Some other players also are. That is the summary of all our problems and essays and memes in two simple sentences.
Correct. It might be worth adding that the opposite of those two sentences is also true. I personally find that a balance between the serious and the not is important. It's not an exceptionally delicate or challenging balance, either.
Many others also had accurate replies, such as @Toris and @Implosion, but I will refrain from delving farther into QuoteWars arguments as enough has already been said between you and the others. I will make one final correction, though.
(11-27-2017, 02:48 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: The story team told me that a faction being "Lawful" is defined by if it has laws to enforce or not.
But yeah, seem like there's no accurate definition.
That's not what we said. Here's a quote from that conversation dating back to mid 2015, when I was an assistant to @Echo 7-7:
Quote:[7/8/2015 8:37:56 PM] Luc E-W (Lythrilux): Also I have a question
[7/8/2015 8:38:08 PM | Edited 8:38:15 PM] Luc E-W (Lythrilux): What defines a lawful? What defines a quasi-lawful?
[7/8/2015 9:13:51 PM] Rohj Teerin (Jeremy): Lawful organizations are generally groups that are legally mandated by and/or represent the will of the government. They abide by their local laws, protect their nation's traders/civilians, fight wars, and, in most cases, enforce the legislation inside their borders
Quasilawful organizations are typically fully independent entities with ties to at least one lawful, unlawful, and corporate faction inside their local region. They (should) avoid picking fights with the authorities, and attempt to hide their criminal links.
This kind of handles how, as @Thyrzul commented, the Council is unlawful. As are the other House revolutionary factions. Lawful/unlawful, or even just lawful/quasilawful/unlawful, is a fairly "black and white" way to describe groups, but it has worked (mostly) as far as the rules are concerned. Story developers use a few extra terms such as revolutionary, pirate, and terrorist to describe unlawfuls and fully separate corporations from other lawfuls.
I agree with everything you wrote. And i believe that it applies to all of Discovery Sirius. For all their good will, devs unfortunately do what the players demand, when in stead they should do what the mod requires in order to grow and be successful activity wise.
In the words of Henry Ford: “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”