Oh well, then I just hope the plan won't just be ignored like 10 months ago. Because already back then a plan for fleet movements within Kusari in the light of the upcoming conflict and the end of the civil war were considered.
I already poked KuGov and some others to work at the new fleet movement then, we react to it, but it is a bit stupid to get to know "Yeah you get Blitzkrieg'd right now" without really having had the oppurtunity to do stuff before. If you so desire to be approached yourself and given plans from one house and then do it, we can go this way for sure. Perhaps it will lead to more interesting oppurtunities in the future then, who knows. Guess there's just one way to find this out, by trying it out. Point taken, now back to work ^^
(03-12-2019, 05:48 PM)Durandal Wrote: I have made this statement before: by acknowledging player events and waiting for these story threads to be concluded by players, you stretch update cycles out to upwards of six months or more. It isn't realistic. To do so also requires players, or at least faction leaders, to know the future. As writers we generally want people to read from the beginning to the end of the book, not skip forward a few pages - or to the end - to see what happens first.
If you want more player driven roleplay that people actually play out before it enters the game world, your best bet is always going to be to proactive by coming to the story team first, asking "hey, can we make this idea work?", and then working with us to get it done.
Re: KuGov. Nobody is entitled to know what their enemies are doing before it happens. Imagine the excitement that would've come with the release of 4.91 if we had told everyone in advance that Bretonia would have six Valors sitting in it; there wouldn't have been any.
Sure, one is not entitled to a preview of the enemy battle plans. Still, they could do some recon, they could fortify weak points, or attempt to secure alternative fronts, or move the rear units if it was apparent that your front would not hold.
We are however, entitled to know that our "efforts" of keeping a stalemate or a defensive position were not good enough, and that we are falling back.
Having your sole front line broken and 2 fleets worth of enemies moving deep into your back lines with no delay or obstruction is something we should be aware of.... beforehand actually.
Because by the time we react and give orders to reinforce Honshu or fight back at them, your next step will be to say they have redeployed 5 Bismarks to New Tokyo orbit, made Saigon into a Gaian like colony of 20 million people, and sold the entirety of Honshu population to Outcast slavery, or whatever. Because you don't like people to micromanage their responses to their enemy moves.
(03-12-2019, 04:46 PM)Riehl Wrote: As somebody who regularly sees the interactions between 1ics and devs first hand, these developments are 100% not forced and came together as the result of conversations. Leastwise, the ones I was in chats for were not foisted upon anyone.
People seem to have this misconception because they don't witness what the process has been like since the handover.
You also need ebb and flow. Player factions tend to all-or-nothing round up on one side or the other. Which results in activity loss.
Decisions behind closed doors are just as bad. Those people only make 5% of the community, and the rest remain uninvolved at practically all levels. This just isn't sustainable in the long term, and the lack of interest from the community at large is evident. Even then, a lot of leaders really are just told "this is happening", and can't even discuss it with their HC.
(03-12-2019, 04:52 PM)Wesker Wrote: If RHA had it's storyline affected by player determined events we'd have toppled Rhein gov by now.
That's why.
Let's be honest though, wouldn't that create a far more interesting narrative and series of events than what Rheinland has going for it now? Don't tell me that RHA having a central role in the story is something you wouldn't want to see.
To keep things fair, not every event should be a pvp style event, or for all objectives to be rated on kills alone. And we've seen that generally the playerbase makes an effort to keep things balanced. Our last two events weren't perfect, but that wasn't the fault of the concept, just the planning and other factors.
(03-12-2019, 05:24 PM)Kaze Wrote:
(03-12-2019, 05:21 PM)JonasHudson Wrote: I agree with OP, battle events solve everything. We should be having story battle events every sunday!
And then by now, ZA would be our zoner overlords.
<3
ZA were garbage at pvp.
I'm not asking for random pews between retards in some backwater system to result in massive, universe-altering, story changes. There needs to be more official events, and less forced story and artificial roleplay, and continually good opportunities to create awesome things are being missed.
(03-12-2019, 05:48 PM)Durandal Wrote: I have made this statement before: by acknowledging player events and waiting for these story threads to be concluded by players, you stretch update cycles out to upwards of six months or more. It isn't realistic. To do so also requires players, or at least faction leaders, to know the future. As writers we generally want people to read from the beginning to the end of the book, not skip forward a few pages - or to the end - to see what happens first.
If you want more player driven roleplay that people actually play out before it enters the game world, your best bet is always going to be to proactive by coming to the story team first, asking "hey, can we make this idea work?", and then working with us to get it done.
Counter-point: the Sigma war has been going on for that same amount of time, if not longer, and players are even less interested in it than they would be if they had a level of involvement or impact. You don't create an interesting narrative by just throwing artificial roleplay at them and expecting them to suit up in it. Let's be real, no one will be interested or care about the story if it's just forced changes that they don't have an interest or involvement in. It's just standard that people like to see the fruits of their labour.
There needs to be a middle ground where both developers and factions idea share and create interesting story arcs that the community can get behind to create activity and roleplay. And if people don't like those ideas, people should be allowed to present alternatives. I think it'd be better to wait longer for quality, community curated updates rather than have forced changes in rapid succession.
(03-12-2019, 05:48 PM)Durandal Wrote: Re: KuGov. Nobody is entitled to know what their enemies are doing before it happens. Imagine the excitement that would've come with the release of 4.91 if we had told everyone in advance that Bretonia would have six Valors sitting in it; there wouldn't have been any.
How is it any better to be kept in the dark until patch day when suddenly Bretonia has six Valors in orbit of New London and no chance was given for roleplay, events or activity to be done prior?
(03-12-2019, 06:28 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: How is it any better to be kept in the dark until patch day when suddenly Bretonia has six Valors in orbit of New London and no chance was given for roleplay, events or activity to be done prior?
You forgot Southampton. And still people played the game, went on with the roleplay.
Just saying it, that's all.
(03-12-2019, 05:48 PM)Durandal Wrote: I have made this statement before: by acknowledging player events and waiting for these story threads to be concluded by players, you stretch update cycles out to upwards of six months or more. It isn't realistic. To do so also requires players, or at least faction leaders, to know the future. As writers we generally want people to read from the beginning to the end of the book, not skip forward a few pages - or to the end - to see what happens first.
If you want more player driven roleplay that people actually play out before it enters the game world, your best bet is always going to be to proactive by coming to the story team first, asking "hey, can we make this idea work?", and then working with us to get it done.
Re: KuGov. Nobody is entitled to know what their enemies are doing before it happens. Imagine the excitement that would've come with the release of 4.91 if we had told everyone in advance that Bretonia would have six Valors sitting in it; there wouldn't have been any.
Sorry but this is complete bullshit...
Just see what have you done to O49 and Newcastle, you forced story without any reasoning, without even consulting all the faction leaders directly involved ...
(03-12-2019, 05:48 PM)Durandal Wrote: I have made this statement before: by acknowledging player events and waiting for these story threads to be concluded by players, you stretch update cycles out to upwards of six months or more. It isn't realistic. To do so also requires players, or at least faction leaders, to know the future. As writers we generally want people to read from the beginning to the end of the book, not skip forward a few pages - or to the end - to see what happens first.
If you want more player driven roleplay that people actually play out before it enters the game world, your best bet is always going to be to proactive by coming to the story team first, asking "hey, can we make this idea work?", and then working with us to get it done.
I get that there needs to be certain moderation and narrative within events and consequences, but this is a roleplaying game that people play because they wanna have fun, and there is no fun in being a puppet in someone else's story. People want to do stuff and achieve something, to have influence over the events involving their factions and not be given a script they need to follow.
You said that if faction leaders want influence, they need "to be to proactive by coming to the story team first". If story devs want to have such a strong grip over the storyline and changes while also satisfying this small community (if they care about that and not only their ego), they are the ones who need to contact faction leaders to see their perspective before making changes. On a side not, can you say that story devs have listened, considered and acted on player requests regarding the Freelancer story at all or enough?
Nobody said it's an easy job and there are always going to be mistakes with it, but things can change.
(03-12-2019, 05:48 PM)Durandal Wrote: I have made this statement before: by acknowledging player events and waiting for these story threads to be concluded by players, you stretch update cycles out to upwards of six months or more. It isn't realistic. To do so also requires players, or at least faction leaders, to know the future. As writers we generally want people to read from the beginning to the end of the book, not skip forward a few pages - or to the end - to see what happens first.
If you want more player driven roleplay that people actually play out before it enters the game world, your best bet is always going to be to proactive by coming to the story team first, asking "hey, can we make this idea work?", and then working with us to get it done.
I get that there needs to be certain moderation and narrative within events and consequences, but this is a roleplaying game that people play because they wanna have fun, and there is no fun in being a puppet in someone else's story. People want to do stuff and achieve something, to have influence over the events involving their factions and not be given a script they need to follow.
You said that if faction leaders want influence, they need "to be to proactive by coming to the story team first". If story devs want to have such a strong grip over the storyline and changes while also satisfying this small community (if they care about that and not only their ego), they are the ones who need to contact faction leaders to see their perspective before making changes. On a side not, can you say that story devs have listened, considered and acted on player requests regarding the Freelancer story at all or enough?
Nobody said it's an easy job and there are always going to be mistakes with it, but things can change.
Couldn't agree more ... except you forgot to add, usually there isn't even any script to follow. I'll mention what's my experience.
Bretonia Dev chat
Story devs: Belfast is going to be taken by Galics. Discuss
Mollys (me): wait what?? WTF really? What about RP of minefield? And what about RP of explosive traps all over Belfast? And whats the reasoning behind Embrun doing such a move? How will Embrun survive a minefield? Mollys having Belfast prepared for attack for years get suprised? WTF mollys are suspicious of everyone, even their allies!
Story Devs: Silent/Ignore
Story Devs: Move forward with it then retcon it destruction of belfast but nothing happens to Embrun, that navigated thru a minefield and survives an explosion but whatever....
Now i ask, was it necessary all of it?
Yes i'm still pissed at it, and it's not because of belfast being destroyed, it was just because of how it was done. I'm sure others had the same problem.
(03-12-2019, 06:28 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: How is it any better to be kept in the dark until patch day when suddenly Bretonia has six Valors in orbit of New London and no chance was given for roleplay, events or activity to be done prior?
You forgot Southampton. And still people played the game, went on with the roleplay.
Just saying it, that's all.
<3
Can you really argue that a surprise (to the community at large at least) footnote to Southampton being destroyed, would be better than MRG creating roleplay to plan an attack on shipyard, before ultimately proceeding with an activity generating event where BAF could actually save it from being destroyed?
Can you really argue that Bretonia is happy that their shipyard was destroyed without roleplay and they didn't have any chance to counter or defend it?
(03-12-2019, 06:28 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Counter-point: the Sigma war has been going on for that same amount of time, if not longer, and players are even less interested in it than they would be if they had a level of involvement or impact. You don't create an interesting narrative by just throwing artificial roleplay at them and expecting them to suit up in it. Let's be real, no one will be interested or care about the story if it's just forced changes that they don't have an interest or involvement in. It's just standard that people like to see the fruits of their labour.
Kusari requested a gate built.
Felipe requested his ships moved.