Discovery 4.91 Patch 12 Balance Changes [12/6/2019]

[Durandal]

OSC shuttle is missing 750 power core to fire SNAC. RIP

I discussed this with Markam earlier and I'm kind of thinking we just shave 750 power drain off the SNAC. Will bring it to the balance chat for further discussion.

[sasapinjic]

- SNACs now will deal full damage against SHFs, Bombers, and Freighters

that means that one shf ... a big and slow ship that only advantage is a more armor and bigger power core , can be destroyed by one snac, no matter the armor upgrad it has?!

Yep,just like in old days when my CAU VII Osprey was one hit killed every time, leaving 270/270 unused bits bihind...
Now, if SHF recive hull+nanobites merging, like Battleships have recived,THEN they can survive SNAC , and full power of SNAC agains them wuld be justified and resonable.

[Couden]

Kudos for SNAC

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[Exterminator]

Thumbs up for the SNAC change. I can have bomber duels again and Freighters cant just TS/TZ and laugh at me. It's not its original state, but I'm very happy with this,
Scatter range nerf seems too drastic, but we'll see.

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[JonasHudson]

Well, this seems like a big nerf of a lot of things. These things were all really so off?

On the topic of snac, I never saw a problem with them and the ability to spew an antimater blast that would obviously rip through a fighter. in RL one missile will take you out, the concussion from a nearby explosion can tear you up. i could never imagine being insta'd by one and then going to complain to someone thay it was bad, when it was only bad for me. I learned to do it too a bit.

Sadly bombers are more dead, shfs are more dead. scortchers were already useless, coronas are useless, and you made it EASIER to bat away torps with flaks???? Flaks killed bombers as it was, now novas are even more useless, and they were only a main go to because nothing else is really usefull anymore. Now its all even less useful. Due to flaks, its been years since a single bomber could engage a cruiser with any point. Why was that so bad again?

I agree the snac changes were never necessary. It seems like balance around here is determined by what those who control things fly and go up against. It seems like the same groups suffering to appease the other same group. Please do not delege any of these things. I cant think of anything that should be removed right now, all the weapons are flashy, unique and fun to use. Balance seems more so judged by what happenes in big group fights when the majority of their use actually comes outside events, outside group battles, with encounters of only 1-3 ships at a time.

Torpedoes useless? Challenge accepted. Also, cruisers and flak? I think you mean battlecruisers. Cruisers tend to try dodging them if they're nimble enough but the heavy variations will struggle if you apply strategy and divide their focus. I know this because I lead a faction that has to either roll caps with nothing but bombers or get rolled. And the years have been enlightening as to how to efficiently make use of the allegedly useless novas.

I actually don't have a problem with this change. I think the Falchion is still problematic, the Lhotse needs to be dialled back a notch and the Titan given its long overdue nerf - seeing as all its major rivals were also nerfed to prepare for this(being bad with the ship and threatening to quit isn't a sufficient nerf). The Manta is still a dumpster-fire in any regard aside from a generous CD-arc but that's not going to really save anyone, I'd also suggest swapping the Hammerhead's CD and gun arc to match the Manta. There's a lot of stuff I have noted down.

Anyway, it's nice to know I can counter an SHF now and won't have to deal with abuse of scatter-guns either. A step in the right direction, but I think there's still some major problems that are yet to be addressed as mentioned above.

yeah i did mean BC's, because you are right that regular cruisers and destroyers have great chances of dodging with the current speed of novas anyways.

But i have to say, disco is its own magic world where people think if you figure out how to use a weapon well, its bad. if you dont take the hint you arent supposed to have more options, you are bad. If someone can figure out how to kick ass with scatter guns, rockets, snac someone etc, thats the way it should be. Any weapon you try and keep remotely fair, we will find a way to get the most out of it. This is the only place that expects people to keep their hands tied for someone else when it wouldnt be realistic, and 'balance' comes first. When in a skill based situation, which disco always was, balance against weapons that can destroy you quickly, comes with player practice.

The entire class division of fighters and bombers is ridiculous now anyways. Pretty much all VHFs could be bombers, and bombers would only actually be needed for big heavy weapons like the torps. But i'd trade all my novas for 500 each more hellfires with a bit better range and damage, and try to do it all unguided. Fighters should be able to use fighter loadout, or a bomber loadout, and bombers should get a large 'area' weapon that makes them bombers and not fat useless fighters.

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[Rantari]

Just gonna throw it out there as this is a balance related post, maybe it’s worth not balancing stuff for the 2% of the server that is insane in VHFs and can go kill everyone else. And maybe focus on bringing balance so that the 98% have a chance?

The reason we see loadouts like the dual MR, dual BS Razors, full EMP + Snac and suicide Double Nova is because without using broken mechanics there is no point even trying.

The arguement that is used every time before we get another nerf to everything is “VHF are the only skill class” the skill being having 20 hands so that you can spam 9174749 buttons at the same moment. Old people like me can’t learn it no matter how much we practice.

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[Dan.]

Just gonna throw it out there as this is a balance related post, maybe it’s worth not balancing stuff for the 2% of the server that is insane in VHFs and can go kill everyone else. And maybe focus on bringing balance so that the 98% have a chance?

The reason we see loadouts like the dual MR, dual BS Razors, full EMP + Snac and suicide Double Nova is because without using broken mechanics there is no point even trying.

The arguement that is used every time before we get another nerf to everything is “VHF are the only skill class” the skill being having 20 hands so that you can spam 9174749 buttons at the same moment. Old people like me can’t learn it no matter how much we practice.

+1
yeah what he said.

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[Lucas]

By not balancing after the 2% who can actually abuse the game mechanics, you open them up to destroy literally everyone else even easier. For the duration of the Cortez event one of my faction members (who is arguably one of the best snub players in the mod) made a Plier, and killed people that were hugging 10 capital ships without losing Nanobots and getting out alive after.

If you give everyone tools to easily destroy other people, there's always going to be the guys on top that use it and it'll make your life even more miserable than before

[Reeves]

is because without using broken mechanics there is no point even trying.

If the only way you hope to stand a chance is an admittedly broken mechanic then just stop playing to win. I've seen this allegation for years now and I can understand where it comes from, but the logic is always faulty. The point of a learning curve is to work through it and games usually provide multiple avenues to do so. SHFs can counter VHFs without the dumb dual MR meta, this is coming from a guy who mounted two chain guns just for laughs.

I'm curious where you're getting this VHF justification from, please don't cite hearsay because that'll automatically invalidate your point. Dealing more with the facts of these changes and less with the assumptions will give you a better insight on just how this shakes things up.

"I'm bad at X, make it so that I can kill someone with years of experience and more technique than me." - If this were any other community there'd be an angry mob coming for you with pitchforks. You aren't forced to play VHFs or learn them, but neither are you entitled to have broken gimmicks purely because you're getting killed by someone better than you. There have been people older than you on the server that would likely have better reflexes than me, a young man, so let's leave stuff like that aside.

Tldr: Don't be silly and try to find a scape-goat in the form of fighters. At least not when silencer missiles outnumber CM amounts.

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[Lusitano]

- SNACs now will deal full damage against SHFs, Bombers, and Freighters

that means that one shf ... a big and slow ship that only advantage is a more armor and bigger power core , can be destroyed by one snac, no matter the armor upgrad it has?!

welp, looking at all the buffs it got, iz seems like a fair deal

what buffs?the ship is bigger than a fighter and bomber, turns slower than both ... it is natural that have more armor and power core. in some cases the shf is almost the size of a gunboat

- SNACs now will deal full damage against SHFs, Bombers, and Freighters

that means that one shf ... a big and slow ship that only advantage is a more armor and bigger power core , can be destroyed by one snac, no matter the armor upgrad it has?!

Yep,just like in old days when my CAU VII Osprey was one hit killed every time, leaving 270/270 unused bits bihind...
Now, if SHF recive hull+nanobites merging, like Battleships have recived,THEN they can survive SNAC , and full power of SNAC agains them wuld be justified and resonable.

all this because some were crying that some were using dual mini razors ... it would be easier not alow one shf to use two mini razors ... i don't even use any on any of mine!! and the same on freighers .. probably more crying that a player in a freighter killed their bombers while they were trying to pirate it!!

well ... at some way not a very intelligent, not to say another word, but it is in continuity to some decisions that were made by the dev team!!! they many wonder why so many players left or are most of the time away!!!!