(05-03-2020, 05:03 AM)Saronsen Wrote: So instead of changing them to still be useable to some degree, the team decides to do..
Nothing? No effort put forwards besides rendering them useless?
ARCHANGELS are now the best 2.00s in the mod, they come under HEIMDALL/EXCAL damage with even more velocity. They still are the alphas of their class, gunships still have silencer missiles for snubs, and Annihilators for heavy capitals. For gunship to gunship combat you're still better off using a conventional prim and pulse setup. No, we were not lazy, we were fixing something that was wrong.
Quote:We get it, you only fly fighters and have no actual knowledge of gunboats, but is laziness the new qualification for development?
If you can fund me a gunship I'd be willing to go at it for a while, I did fly caps way back when. I was good at it : )
Laziness, WASD, and NPC flying are all qualifications for dev positions. If you are insterested, please see myself (Laziness head), @Haste (WASD head), or @pillow (NPC Head).
Quote:Vandals don't break the shield gate individually either.
Do you seriously not play the game?
Okay, fair enough, but do two nukes break shield gate and insta kill? Let's also consider that nukes now have damage falloff and their tracking is far different than that of a missile. Two Vandals not only break shield gate - they instakill in the process.
Quote:Like 90% of the VHFs in the game, are you new here or something?
This is not true, there were one or two lightweight VHFs that would be a victim of this. One of which has been fixed.
Quote:No, but they one tap LFs. Imagine, being two ship sizes up like the gunboat is to the VHF and having an explosive that can instantly kill someone two sizes below you.
Really makes you think.
The Nuclear mine also does not have the same properties as a gunship missile, for an instakill to happen the LF player has to fly directly into the mine or simply not move. With missiles, even when dodging you're still vaulnerable to the one tap potential.
(05-03-2020, 05:03 AM)Saronsen Wrote: Do you seriously not play the game?
I'm starting to wonder if you do at all. Sorry my dude, but as far as I know you don't go anywhere near snubs, and your post makes it clear that even if you did you still wouldn't know what you're talking about. You complain about VHFs getting instakilled by common things such as a 2.00 + MR combo and it happens, yes, because people often forget to press G, the nanobot button. Should we just remove 2.00s? The Razor? Mines? Dump all nanos into ship hull on all ship classes and watch as the game becomes a complete drag? Hard pass.
(05-03-2020, 05:03 AM)Saronsen Wrote:
Quote:Do razors in combo with 2.00s one tap all vhfs?
Like 90% of the VHFs in the game, are you new here or something?
No, but they one tap LFs. Imagine, being two ship sizes up like the gunboat is to the VHF and having an explosive that can instantly kill someone two sizes below you.
Really makes you think.
I absolutely despise nukes, but them instakilling LFs is not a fault with them, but the actual class, which is getting tuned up. Look at the Core Silvertip as a point of reference there. Don't compare the VHF/LF differences to VHFs and Gunboats, that's just silly and makes you look stupid.
Mines are also not front-fired tracking missiles. You have to actually try a little bit to hit people with them.
I really cannot speak for gunboats and how they play but I sure as shit can talk about snubs and getting beanblasted by a 2.00 in disguise (the old Archangel) is about as lame as suddenly being buttbanged by some random torpedo fired from a (gun)ship my little snub couldn't ever dream of actually damaging. I could at least bully Wesker with screamers and watch him zoom 10k away if he used old Archies on me.
And yes, I understand that the torps were probably easy to dodge. Except when you're not aware of them and suddenly your entire screen goes kaboom. Fun.
tl;dr we want the game to be enjoyable for more than 3 people so we got rid of things that weren't cool and good and made bad things cooler and gooder
more to come
(05-03-2020, 05:03 AM)Saronsen Wrote: Do you seriously not play the game?
I'm starting to wonder if you do at all. Sorry my dude, but as far as I know you don't go anywhere near snubs, and your post makes it clear that even if you did you still wouldn't know what you're talking about. You complain about VHFs getting instakilled by common things such as a 2.00 + MR combo and it happens, yes, because people often forget to press G, the nanobot button. Should we just remove 2.00s? The Razor? Mines? Dump all nanos into ship hull on all ship classes and watch as the game becomes a complete drag? Hard pass.
(05-03-2020, 05:03 AM)Saronsen Wrote:
Quote:Do razors in combo with 2.00s one tap all vhfs?
Like 90% of the VHFs in the game, are you new here or something?
No, but they one tap LFs. Imagine, being two ship sizes up like the gunboat is to the VHF and having an explosive that can instantly kill someone two sizes below you.
Really makes you think.
I absolutely despise nukes, but them instakilling LFs is not a fault with them, but the actual class, which is getting tuned up. Look at the Core Silvertip as a point of reference there. Don't compare the VHF/LF differences to VHFs and Gunboats, that's just silly and makes you look stupid.
Mines are also not front-fired tracking missiles. You have to actually try a little bit to hit people with them.
I really cannot speak for gunboats and how they play but I sure as ***** can talk about snubs and getting beanblasted by a 2.00 in disguise (the old Archangel) is about as lame as suddenly being buttbanged by some random torpedo fired from a (gun)ship my little snub couldn't ever dream of actually damaging. I could at least bully Wesker with screamers and watch him zoom 10k away if he used old Archies on me.
And yes, I understand that the torps were probably easy to dodge. Except when you're not aware of them and suddenly your entire screen goes kaboom. Fun.
tl;dr we want the game to be enjoyable for more than 3 people so we got rid of things that weren't cool and good and made bad things cooler and gooder
more to come
Really, of all the mines, nukes are in a way the hardest to use. They don't track as tightly or move as quickly as other varieties of mines, so you have to drop them and try to guide your opponent into them. As such, it's easier to avoid them, but more punishing if you can't.
The thing about nukes that actually sucks is that they're pretty much the default if you want to build a fighter that's competitive. Screamers have some niche uses (they're pretty useful if you're harassing transports a lot -- you can just fly over the transport and drop a couple of them to take care of the shield), and Rippers are good for LFs who're trying not to blow themselves up, but by and large, most fighters will just use a nuke mine dropper. Even plenty of LFs have them.
A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.
This is less of a stat debate and more of a complaint about effort/skill vs balance. I'm struggling to make a separate thread on this idea without having it very likely derail into "this gun is op because it's easy and unfun" rather than people understanding that things won't always be fair in terms of effort and how if played perfectly certain matchups are impossible without human error.
Like you can't just remove gunboats entirely they'll always be there suppressing you either constantly or with pressure from a missile or being able to clap you for EK'ing in a straight line for too long. That's just how games in general work.
Edit: Same with all ship classes.
Even snubs. It's just Snubs are harder to fly as freely without having to tunnel vision as much to attack. That's just how ganks work.
The insta kill argument is separate as it's far more than just this one scenario and is more subjective as that's an argument based on what people find fun and fair and how well/badly they take it.
Edit again. Bugs aren't related to balance as balance should be decided around optimal perfect performance from the factors involved. Bugs like alerts not working should be fixed and when dying to that you're right to be angry. Not at the missile but at the game and who ever is responsible for the game for not fixing it.
Not an insult or dig. But the truth. I'm not here to be bias. But the Devs are human so have mercy things take time to figure out and fix. They're trying.
lyth, you can bring up people like impy and i dunking scrubs with missiles all you like, but what you fail to bring up is the situation
when people were being dunked by impy and john and i with dual house/basic missiles, it was when the enemy was already broken and running, and all three of us were firing at least 3 different gunboat missiles and sharing ammo, and just utterly overwhelming the CM
in an actual 1v3 or whatever against snubs, gb missiles are entirely useless
they're a weapon that you can only use when you're already winning
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missiles are also the only option against cheese setups
see: using BC/BS missiles against tutashkia back when the asco had a broken hitbox
or using missiles against CAU8 camaras
or using missiles against CAU8 OSC shuttles
ed: personally I don't really care if the Vandal gets nerfed since I barely used it anyway, but I would like it if the replacement wasn't utter garbage that will never see use by anyone with 3 brain cells