Bretonian Government Feedback

[Swifty]

May I know what's the reason my feedback post was deleted? I'm not taking any sides in this egos clashing, I genuinely wanted to give my Bretonian associates a chance to pick themselves up after all this... whatever it is that is going on here.

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[DSE|=]

That is good to hear. I would suggest also that any current POB licensed under Bret Gov NOT be grandfathered into new laws and policies and that they will apply after renewal of licenses. Reason for this is that people spent money under certain conditions. It would not be fair to change those conditions without at least monetary compensation.

EXISTING USER RIGHTS - Built under previous rules and conditions cannot be impacted by the new.

Bretonia's actions are the result of internal bias against PoB's. They cannot retrofit a clause and enforce it upon all PoB's in Bretonia because all current licensed PoB's were built under different laws. This is called Existing User Rights. Racerdude is dead right with the above comment. From what I have read those that now run Bretonia Govt are arguing it was because it was decaying. There was never any law against decaying POBs. There was never any need to arbitrarily decide to make a decision to threaten any PoB based on decay other than it being an excuse to destroy PoB's and get the giggles. Not fair, not good for the game.

FAIR PLAY - life can be tough and not everyone has the time, all the time, to spend it in-game.

Those two bases belonged to DSE|-. Old Trafford was a core 4 which means a lot of hard work had been invested in-game and in-forum to RP the right to go to core 4.

Old Trafford was DSE|-'s HQ at one stage. DSE|- inherited Planet Leeds S&R years ago.
Both have been used regularly by a number of players as support bases, transfer stations and storage. I totally dispute they were ever abandoned.

Paddy ran DSE|- after taking over from her Father, and helped along from time to time with me and one/two others over time. I took over the PoBs when I agreed to take over the leadership of DSE|-. The handover was about 10 days ago. No one saw the announcement about these threatened PoB's by Bretonia except Paddy who actually did supply both with commodities before she left. There was no requirement to contact the Brtonian Government. It is quite normal for players to have PoB's go into decay due to RL commitments. That does not mean they were abandoned. As someone noted in an earlier post, someone had maintained these bases for over four years.

RIGHT DECISION - restore the PoB's as an expression of good will and common sense. Best for the game, no one loses.

I think this should be considered a learning curve for the community. The players who now run Bretonia are rather caustic and biased as hell against PoB's. That is very clear and convincing given they have stated it as such. It is not in the interest of Discovery to do harm. My advice is that Bretonia asks the Admin to restore these three bases and failing that the Admin should step in and do it anyway. Making right a wrong.

[The Kingdom of Bretonia]

We will say this for the one last time. Cease with the complaints about the destroyed bases. We have been talking about them long enough and the consensus amongst respectable players as well as all BretGov members is that the lack of roleplay and the the lack of supplies has led to their destruction. The bases will not be restored.

We have been as generous as we can for the time being. We have explained this well enough to all parties and said that we'll update laws very, very soon. Now, we ask that people respect our wish to just simply move on to other matters. There is little interest on our side in turning the ventures of the Enclave in Dublin 3 years prior into the "motto" of Bretonia House-wide.

And, once more, as a last note, to act as a friendly reminder to our PoB owner guests. Player bases are group investments above Core 2. Communication is key. If you, the PoB owner, are going away for a set period of time, either communicating it inRPly or ooRPly would be sufficient to understand the situation. We are not here to babysit 25 bases each month. Do your duty.

Thank you for the feedback.

[Stewgar]

We will say this for the one last time. Cease with the complaints about the destroyed bases. We have been talking about them long enough and the consensus amongst respectable players as well as all BretGov members is that the lack of roleplay and the the lack of supplies has led to their destruction.

Have you not been paying attention to the last 2+ pages about this matter? The OVERWHELMING consensus is that the actions taken by Bret Gov has been WRONG. To state lack of roleplay is the reason for it’s destruction and then take an action that is not RP correct is amateur, especially for a Gov. The respectable members of this community calls it meta.

This places Discovery at an all time low if this action is tolerated. And no, this is a feedback thread. To tell us to cease is weak. Just because the feedback is not what you want to hear does not mean we, the players, don’t have a say. Shameful.

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It ain't about what you are capable of, it's about what you're willing to do.

[Shiloh]

Have you not been paying attention to the last 2+ pages about this matter? The OVERWHELMING consensus is that the actions taken by Bret Gov has been WRONG. To state lack of roleplay is the reason for it’s destruction and then take an action that is not RP correct is amateur, especially for a Gov. The respectable members of this community calls it meta.

This places Discovery at an all time low if this action is tolerated. And no, this is a feedback thread. To tell us to cease is weak. Just because the feedback is not what you want to hear does not mean we, the players, don’t have a say. Shameful.

I will step in and give my own feedback, as I agree in the entirety of what @"Racerdude" said above. It's a shameful behavior, and this message signals "We've read what you said, we acknowledge it, and we'll do jacksh*t about it, please stop talking thanks".

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I will give my own feedback then. As you might have noticed, I have a bounty of 250,000,000 millions on my project, Johnny's Office. It was before at 500,000,000. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but when the BAF 1iC, is also the 1iC of BHG|, and posts a bounty that was originally a bounty of 150,000,000 one-time kill, to ten times, 50,000,000 per kills, and suddenly, BHG| ships come straight up back from the dead and fleets of gunboats chases the only ship that's known, which is the character "Redemption", a VHF. It is basically a 10x killing of a single ship, a VHF, against hordes of Bounty Hunters players - and these are the friends of the mentioned 1iC of both.

So basically, I see it as embezzlement; taking the cash from the BretGov's bank, and putting it into the pockets of the one leading and his band of friends.
Now, enough about the conspiracy theorist part: it's literally harassment, and if you saw the latest update on the bounty, it got reduced to five times, 50,000,000 / kills. So my ship is still basically unloggable. The rest, however, is completely loggable. And honestly, it is a shameful move to simply disregard the roleplay I tried to do to justify the reasons behind it, and after being confronted about it, claims it's subpar after being asked the question of whether he considered the roleplay as "good enough or subpar?".

This inflexibility, and sheer compulsivity of feeling powerful parallels the POB discussion here. And I can only agree again with Racerdude, it is a shameful behavior from the part of BretGov. I believe the moderation team should step in-- oh sorry, I forgot that the moderator team doesn't deal with Discord affairs. :)

[Groshyr]

I've read what you people wrote here and still don't understand the problem.

RP happened; owners were given about a week of time, plus extra hours while siege was going on, to contact Darius or anyone of BretGov, just come to BAF server and say, "guys please cease, I am busy, will reply to your RP as soon as you can". This isn't something impossible, and you do not exist in vacuum - someone must've delivered you the message, moreover one of the POBs owners even stated she is leaving Disco to take care of her career and marriage, yet - y'all making drama of valid consequences for ignoring a communication from the Government of a house you built in.

I understand that you used to feel safe in Bretonia where the only enemy for the last 4 or 5 years was the Enclave, since everyone else is either non-existent or cannot fight back skill or numbers BAF can offer as repel, but this doesn't mean you can ignore RP from a superior structure in the local hierarchy and then come to its feedback, threating and demanding restoration.

Your tamagotchi isn't something you cannot restore in a new shape. It isn't a real pet that died, and you sorrow for them. It's not a living being you cannot return, it's a bunch of code and pixels; I can relate to the time you put into it and the sour taste of loss, but if you really want to restore it - you would've had it on a semi-way to core 2 by now, even if you play alone. Instead - you are here.

snip

If you behave bad, you get punched. Should've thought of consequences before engaging in verbal combat in systems chat. You can try doing this to any iRL military and see how they react.

[Shiloh]

If you behave bad, you get punched. Should've thought of consequences before engaging in verbal combat in systems chat. You can try doing this to any iRL military and see how they react.

Reread what I wrote instead of flying to the rescue of your friend.

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Discount banner time

[Czechmate]

We will say this for the one last time. Cease with the complaints about the destroyed bases. We have been talking about them long enough and the consensus amongst respectable players as well as all BretGov members is that the lack of roleplay and the the lack of supplies has led to their destruction.

Have you not been paying attention to the last 2+ pages about this matter? The OVERWHELMING consensus is that the actions taken by Bret Gov has been WRONG. To state lack of roleplay is the reason for it’s destruction and then take an action that is not RP correct is amateur, especially for a Gov. The respectable members of this community calls it meta.

This places Discovery at an all time low if this action is tolerated. And no, this is a feedback thread. To tell us to cease is weak. Just because the feedback is not what you want to hear does not mean we, the players, don’t have a say. Shameful.

Agreed - even if there's a 1 week requirement + check, it should come at set dates and set periods, e.g. at start of the quarter - this is a game, not a job. If you give only a week the PoB owners should know well in advance when you will be asking, not this ridiculous arbitrary process of 3 PoBs per month or whatever that has been mentioned Gov wants to do. The process should always start with a fine anyways, at least for core 3+. I am extremely curious about what admins will decide here - 4.8 is meant to be a law that allows for miscellaneous small offenses, the so-called "bully law", not for something as huge as destroying own legal Core4 PoBs. It wasn't quoted anyways in the posts at all.


Another thing - the laws have not been changed, we will not know how admins will decide. Would Bret Gov be ready to pay monetary compensation to the owners of the destroyed PoBs? This would show a lot of good will. Nothing can replace the long effort of those Pobs being built and their history, but the 4bn+ per base that core 4s are worth could at least soften the blow.

[DSE|=]

This is a feedback thread. You are not heeding what is being said. It is clear that many are deeply concerned that a house government has acted totally irresponsibly and against the interest of the players and against its very rules.

I agree with racerdude. This is the lowest of the lowest practice. It is wrong and to try and wiggle your way out of a very VERY game-damaging action. You are claiming "...the consensus amongst respectable players as well as all BretGov members..." Name them as I call bogus on this claim.

Take off, not only your blinkers, but your ear plugs. LISTEN to what the vast majority have said. Respectful players who openly name themselves. You are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG to have done this in the first place, and all it would take is to restore things to what they were. How hard is that?

Here are some things that MUST be considered:

The intent of these rules is for everyone to be excellent to one another and to use common sense. Keep fair play in mind and have consideration for others.

2.4 - Attacking POBs (Player-Owned Bases) without valid roleplay ... is not allowed...

We, the majority of respondents are pointing out that the RP used to perpetrate these attacks were invalid. We want to point out to you that your actions as Bretonia are NOT excellent, not commonsensical, not fair play, and not considerate.

Why are you all so intrenched in sticking to your guns rather than seeking a considerate, fair, excellent and SENSIBLE solution? Is this and ego/testosterone thing?

[Czechmate]

This is a feedback thread. You are not heeding what is being said. It is clear that many are deeply concerned that a house government has acted totally irresponsibly and against the interest of the players and against its very rules.

I agree with racerdude. This is the lowest of the lowest practice. It is wrong and to try and wiggle your way out of a very VERY game-damaging action. You are claiming "...the consensus amongst respectable players as well as all BretGov members..." Name them as I call bogus on this claim.

Take off, not only your blinkers, but your ear plugs. LISTEN to what the vast majority have said. Respectful players who openly name themselves. You are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG to have done this in the first place, and all it would take is to restore things to what they were. How hard is that?

Here are some things that MUST be considered:

The intent of these rules is for everyone to be excellent to one another and to use common sense. Keep fair play in mind and have consideration for others.

2.4 - Attacking POBs (Player-Owned Bases) without valid roleplay ... is not allowed...

We, the majority of respondents are pointing out that the RP used to perpetrate these attacks were invalid. We want to point out to you that your actions as Bretonia are NOT excellent, not commonsensical, not fair play, and not considerate.

Why are you all so intrenched in sticking to your guns rather than seeking a considerate, fair, excellent and SENSIBLE solution? Is this and ego/testosterone thing?

They can't restore the bases to be fair - that has to be Admins after a sanction/warning if a VR was submitted. If Bret Gov would admit wrongdoing proactively that would only help, but restoring is not up to them at this point. This discussion is more about the planned changes to the laws that seem to be also alarming - why feedback can help them to make them sensible.