Changes to POBs

[Dr. Richard Batsbak]

PoBs should never have been maintanble by solo people.

So glad i will be able to see the stars again in some systems soon.

Why not?

As an indie RGS/Interspace what ever i can get a barge kinda easy and no one cares. But when i build a base alone everyone loses their shit...

[Czechmate]

TBH a lot of bases are dead/unused on the server - after a couple months when they die off this can be tweaked back again some, but the clutter clean will be cool.

It will be nice to go the direction of adding features afterwards, especially for RP (and/or unlawful) bases in further places - like the Rumor Writing, assembling unlawful commodities etc.

[James Greed]

It's fine.

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Greedback

[Lord Helmchen]

Let me Give you a Example. We Have 2 Tier 2 PoBs in OS&C Property. We supply them ususaly once or twice a Month with 20k of FOW and Hull Plates Each. With a Increase In FOW and HP consumptions like this we would now be Forced to Supply the Base every 2 Days. I understand that you want to Get Rid of Old Not Supplyed PoBs and thats Fine, but a Increase in Upkeep will only Make POBs more Unatractive for Pepole. We Usualy need 3 to 4 Hours to stock our POBs, and it works fine if we do it once or two times a Month. But i dont think that Orbitals Members have Time to Refill the POBs every 2 days.

Not actually correct, as your Bases FOW requirements haven't changed.
Now I don't recollect where your other Base is, but I know quite well that your Base in IDF is almost on top the Planet, so as it consumes 800 each of FOW per day, it would literally take you, at the most, about 2 minutes to supply. That you decide to supply it with HS and not RA takes a bit of time as HS takes twice the space.

Believe me, Filling the Base in New Paris Takes maybe less Time than filling the Base in Tottori but it definitely takes Longer than 2 Minutes to Fill it with 80.000 Units of FOW and Repair Material in Total. As the One that mostly Does the Supply Flights I know how long it takes.

For our Second Base in Tottori, I can tell you that 4 Hours to Completly fill her With Everything she needs is an Also not that far out of the Ballpark as 2 of the 4 Needed Comoditys to Keep her Afloat are in the Neighboring Kyushu System.

If there have nothing Changed about the Consumption Rate of FOW and Repair Material to keep the base Always at Full Life then I will Shut my Mouth from now on as I Welcome the Changes to Get Rid of Unsuplyed POBs Much Faster than it is Currently the Case. Even when I will Miss the Battleship Fleets that shoot on POBs a lot.

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Orbital Spa and Cruise

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[Chenzo-]

Let me Give you a Example. We Have 2 Tier 2 PoBs in OS&C Property. We supply them ususaly once or twice a Month with 20k of FOW and Hull Plates Each. With a Increase In FOW and HP consumptions like this we would now be Forced to Supply the Base every 2 Days. I understand that you want to Get Rid of Old Not Supplyed PoBs and thats Fine, but a Increase in Upkeep will only Make POBs more Unatractive for Pepole. We Usualy need 3 to 4 Hours to stock our POBs, and it works fine if we do it once or two times a Month. But i dont think that Orbitals Members have Time to Refill the POBs every 2 days.

Not actually correct, as your Bases FOW requirements haven't changed.
Now I don't recollect where your other Base is, but I know quite well that your Base in IDF is almost on top the Planet, so as it consumes 800 each of FOW per day, it would literally take you, at the most, about 2 minutes to supply. That you decide to supply it with HS and not RA takes a bit of time as HS takes twice the space.

Believe me, Filling the Base in New Paris Takes maybe less Time than filling the Base in Tottori but it definitely takes Longer than 2 Minutes to Fill it with 80.000 Units of FOW and Repair Material in Total. As the One that mostly Does the Supply Flights I know how long it takes.

For our Second Base in Tottori, I can tell you that 4 Hours to Completly fill her With Everything she needs is an Also not that far out of the Ballpark as 2 of the 4 Needed Comoditys to Keep her Afloat are in the Neighboring Kyushu System.

If there have nothing Changed about the Consumption Rate of FOW and Repair Material to keep the base Always at Full Life then I will Shut my Mouth from now on as I Welcome the Changes to Get Rid of Unsuplyed POBs Much Faster than it is Currently the Case. Even when I will Miss the Battleship Fleets that shoot on POBs a lot.

No changes to f/o/w rates.
Core 1 and 2 require 6x the wear and tear items.
Core 3 and 4 use just over 3x the wear and tear items.

50k stock of Robotic Hardware(minimum 12,500,000 cost)/Hull Panel's (minimum 12,500,000 cost)& 80k Reinforced Alloy(20,000,000 cost), 15k Shield fuel(35,000,000 cost)needing 245,000 space on a core 4 base will die after a 7 hour siege. That’s a minimum of 49 trips worth of cargo & a minimum 16.3 hours to do- 20 mins per 5k filling an unlawful base. (Based on the CR siege of the Auxo base)

Under previous current/consumption rates, that Core 2 base(no idea how well it was supplied) took 16 hours to siege. A 2.5/3 hour siege would pop that Core 2base after these new ‘changes’ are impliemented.(assuming it has nothing but storage to hold these supplies)

All PoB’s will be much, much easier to kill & require a minimum of 3x more time to exist. That’s before you’ve used it for anything. That’s before you’ve earned the cash to buy the supplies in the first place. Most trade routes pay 60/110M a hour if you don’t get pirated.

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[St.Denis]

50k stock of Robotic Hardware(minimum 12,500,000 cost)/Hull Panel's (minimum 12,500,000 cost)& 80k Reinforced Alloy(20,000,000 cost), 15k Shield fuel(35,000,000 cost)needing 245,000 space on a core 4 base will die after a 7 hour siege. That’s a minimum of 49 trips worth of cargo & a minimum 16.3 hours to do- 20 mins per 5k filling an unlawful base. (Based on the CR siege of the Auxo base)

All depends on how many Battleships are shooting it.

Under previous current/consumption rates, that Core 2 base(no idea how well it was supplied) took 16 hours to siege. A 2.5/3 hour siege would pop that Core 2base after these new ‘changes’ are impliemented.(assuming it has nothing but storage to hold these supplies)

All PoB’s will be much, much easier to kill & require a minimum of 3x more time to exist. That’s before you’ve used it for anything. That’s before you’ve earned the cash to buy the supplies in the first place. Most trade routes pay 60/110M a hour if you don’t get pirated.

Yet again, depends on how many BSs are shooting it.

Did you miss the second part of my OP?

2) Repair Rate has been increased from 2,000 per tick to 6,000 per tick. Bases will repair quicker

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'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are'
Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person

[Chenzo-]

50k stock of Robotic Hardware(minimum 12,500,000 cost)/Hull Panel's (minimum 12,500,000 cost)& 80k Reinforced Alloy(20,000,000 cost), 15k Shield fuel(35,000,000 cost)needing 245,000 space on a core 4 base will die after a 7 hour siege. That’s a minimum of 49 trips worth of cargo & a minimum 16.3 hours to do- 20 mins per 5k filling an unlawful base. (Based on the CR siege of the Auxo base)

All depends on how many Battleships are shooting it.

Under previous current/consumption rates, that Core 2 base(no idea how well it was supplied) took 16 hours to siege. A 2.5/3 hour siege would pop that Core 2base after these new ‘changes’ are impliemented.(assuming it has nothing but storage to hold these supplies)

All PoB’s will be much, much easier to kill & require a minimum of 3x more time to exist. That’s before you’ve used it for anything. That’s before you’ve earned the cash to buy the supplies in the first place. Most trade routes pay 60/110M a hour if you don’t get pirated.

Yet again, depends on how many BSs are shooting it.

Did you miss the second part of my OP?

2) Repair Rate has been increased from 2,000 per tick to 6,000 per tick. Bases will repair quicker

Hi,

I based my numbers off the siege I witnessed, the CR siege of the core 2 base.

Yes, I did take into account the heightened rate of which bases are fixed, but also the heightened consumption rate.

Like a sugar rush, the supplies load in to repair under siege but as 50k of Hull Panels(100k space), 50K Robotic Hardware and 80k of Reinforced alloy would be eaten very quickly to compensate for said load, the base would then be "empty" and as a result not repair at all. the end result being a core 4 base under new rules will pop in less than half the time a core 2 base would have under current rules whilst under seige.

Was there also any comment on the time is takes to supply an unlawful base under new rules? The time to earn the credits to even purchase said supplies? You can say that it's meant to be a team effort with things, but 7/8 days supply with a stock-up in case of siege taking over 16 hours, even with 32 players doing 30 mins each.(unfortunately doesn't split like this even if the whole server activity was to chip in time to a single base)

All that to be popped by 12 dreadnaughts in less than 7 hours? That totally ignores the millions of units, input time for vast levels of in game time and timestamped forum-posted RP required to get a base to that core level to begin with.

If this is the case, only DTR making up the vast majority of logged server time are able to run a PoB due to the sheer numbers required to do so, unless of course they have multiple people sinking a few hours a day as their entire play time purely to supply it.

Please correct me if this understanding is wrong. I'd really love to be wrong.

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[Haste]

[snip]
but 7/8 days supply with a stock-up in case of siege taking over 16 hours, even with 32 players doing 30 mins each.(unfortunately doesn't split like this even if the whole server activity was to chip in time to a single base)

All that to be popped by 12 dreadnaughts in less than 7 hours? That totally ignores the millions of units and input time required to get a base to that core level to begin with.
[and also snip]

Twelve Dreadnoughts sieging for 7 hours adds up to 84 man-hours. The stock up period adds up, by your own math, to 16 hours. That means the attackers are investing 5.25 times more hours into this whole thing than the defenders, by your own example.

That to me seems like it's still tilted in favor of the attackers.

I will say, however, that there are plans to a do a far more in-depth rework of siege mechanics, and one of the core mechanics we will be working with - in all likelihood - is "Damage caps per siege" - meaning the twelve dreadnoughts in your example would get to shoot a base for, perhaps, thirty minutes before rendering it invincible for an amount of time. It's just that we need to make sure such a rework gets all the numbers right and accounts for all sorts of potential issues.

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[Kauket]

Was there also any comment on the time is takes to supply an unlawful base under new rules? The time to earn the credits to even purchase said supplies? You can say that it's meant to be a team effort with things, but 7/8 days supply with a stock-up in case of siege taking over 16 hours, even with 32 players doing 30 mins each.(unfortunately doesn't split like this even if the whole server activity was to chip in time to a single base)

core 3 with full stock btw

[Chenzo-]

[snip]
but 7/8 days supply with a stock-up in case of siege taking over 16 hours, even with 32 players doing 30 mins each.(unfortunately doesn't split like this even if the whole server activity was to chip in time to a single base)

All that to be popped by 12 dreadnaughts in less than 7 hours? That totally ignores the millions of units and input time required to get a base to that core level to begin with.
[and also snip]

Twelve Dreadnoughts sieging for 7 hours adds up to 84 man-hours. The stock up period adds up, by your own math, to 16 hours. That means the attackers are investing 5.25 times more hours into this whole thing than the defenders, by your own example.

That to me seems like it's still tilted in favor of the attackers.

I get what you're saying but you snipped a portion.

a core 4 base takes an absolute minimum of 3.5 months? At least two months of combined hardcore ore trading prior for the cash. Assuming RP is flowing, player activity is dedicated, The daily consumption rates, repair commodities to bring the bases health up etc etc etc.

You can't compare the time of a stock up in prep to hope surviving a siege vs the time taken to shoot it down, you have to take into account the months prior to even get there.

PoB's should be destructible, for sure. By no means am I saying that they should invincible. The struggle here is balance, and what has been put forward to to take place means 84 hours for 12 players across 7 real hours is stackable against 5.5 months, split however you like.

I will say, however, that there are plans to a do a far more in-depth rework of siege mechanics, and one of the core mechanics we will be working with - in all likelihood - is "Damage caps per siege" - meaning the twelve dreadnoughts in your example would get to shoot a base for, perhaps, thirty minutes before rendering it invincible for an amount of time. It's just that we need to make sure such a rework gets all the numbers right and accounts for all sorts of potential issues.

This sounds like a decent trade off, however what would happen after the invincibility time kicks in? How long before the siege will be allowed to continue/be effective in dealing damage?

From reading this thread a few points are very clear:
People like the fact unmaintained bases will die quickly- let’s up this to a base without supplies will pop within a week. Not the 70ish day mark. (My suggestion based on clearing the server of unmaintained bases).

Why not simply implement something like this with the current consumption rates until what you mentioned above as a possibility is finalised?

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