A comment made on the Junker Legal? thread prompted a question that I've had ever since seeing that the admins or Angels were trying to get traders to affiliate with factions.
I understand the whole indie phenomenon can get out of control, but I really wonder about getting rid of generic trader/smuggler IDs. Why in the world (or in Sirius) would there not be many traders and smugglers working for themselves alone, possibly allied with a faction (hence the tag/IFF), but not employed (ID'd) with them? I have a hard time understanding how general independent/self-employed traders or smugglers would not exist in significant numbers in a Sirius-like setting.
This is NOT a place to flame, to spam, or to enter into old faction/indie debates that have dilapidated homes in other threads. It's just an honest question.
I dont see a problem with indie traders, I think the main problem is powertrading or something, though I think from reading a ID changes proposal thread (I think this is going in next version?), Trader ID'd ships will only be able to use a max of 3600 cargo spaced ships (firefly).
which I think is quite justified, advanced train and such looks more of a high cost ship from faction traders funded by the company, instead of a cheap ship an indie trader would buy. (regardless of if its easy to buy an adv train with a day of power trading).
' Wrote:I dont see a problem with indie traders, I think the main problem is powertrading or something, though I think from reading a ID changes proposal thread (I think this is going in next version?), Trader ID'd ships will only be able to use a max of 3600 cargo spaced ships (firefly).
which I think is quite justified, advanced train and such looks more of a high cost ship from faction traders funded by the company, instead of a cheap ship an indie trader would buy. (regardless of if its easy to buy an adv train with a day of power trading).
Yeah, I think that makes some sense, though certainly there would be some RP logic to indies becoming "independently wealthy" and moving up on ship type/size. This adjustment is probably a good thing, though.
I don't agree with the generic ID's because it removes you from RP alot of the time, sure be an "indie" trader all you like. The Military ID is not used much as their is no Sirus military, the pirate ID is used so someone can buy a BD Gunboat, mount all Dragonfly turrets then go pirate in Liberty and Rhienland etc.
The trader ID is a little more complex in that if you do want to be an indie trader, you should have no IFF at all. If your a trader thats easy to manage, I dont really have anything against the trader ID as much as I do against the other generic's. I think the smuggler ID is just absurd, smugglers should not be carrying an ID that labels them a little bit dodgey, think I'll keep an eye on him next time he's around.
In my opinion the problem is not with the ID itself, it is the fact that 95% of the traders in disco are independent, that is not in anyway realistic, I would imagine (in my non-scientific opinion) that the proportion should be much closer to 75%affiliated 25% non-affiliated. As it is now, there is very little rp going on with traders because they are all independent, a huge portion of the factional rp is gone, because so few people want to use trader faction id's.
' Wrote:I don't agree with the generic ID's because it removes you from RP alot of the time, sure be an "indie" trader all you like. The Military ID is not used much as their is no Sirus military, the pirate ID is used so someone can buy a BD Gunboat, mount all Dragonfly turrets then go pirate in Liberty and Rhienland etc.
The trader ID is a little more complex in that if you do want to be an indie trader, you should have no IFF at all. If your a trader thats easy to manage, I dont really have anything against the trader ID as much as I do against the other generic's. I think the smuggler ID is just absurd, smugglers should not be carrying an ID that labels them a little bit dodgey, think I'll keep an eye on him next time he's around.
Disagree a bit on the Pirate ID - for the Federalists, it's come in handy as a way to distinguish us from the Mollys, whose tag we have to use. I'm running into a lot of situations where for legitimate RP, I need concessions that people rail against and assume "everyone" abuses. Not everyone does.
I'm good with no tag, but often a tag is obtained to lock oneself into a rep in order to avoid accidentally acquiring another one.
Agreed on the smuggler - that's a bit silly, though I can see the rationale from a game mechanics perspective.
Overall, I'd say our rationale for ID/tag usage should be driven by proper RP and not by potential for abuse. Easier said than done, I know.
' Wrote:In my opinion the problem is not with the ID itself, it is the fact that 95% of the traders in disco are independent, that is not in anyway realistic, I would imagine (in my non-scientific opinion) that the proportion should be much closer to 75%affiliated 25% non-affiliated. As it is now, there is very little rp going on with traders because they are all independent, a huge portion of the factional rp is gone, because so few people want to use trader faction id's.
As far as what "should" be, I don't have a percentage preference as long as the RP's good. Otherwise, I'm in complete agreement here, though I really don't have an expectation for people to use trader faction IDs without being in a trader faction (if one exists, of course).
Since the discussion mentioned the Smuggler ID, I will once again throw in my two cents for reference. As a user of the Smuggler ID, I wholly disagree with any notion of it's removal, and here's why: The Trader ID is an indication in RP that the given character is very much lawful, and engages in an entirely lawful enterprise. The Smuggler ID is not as much important to lawfuls as it is to unlawfuls. Smuggler ID indicates that this person is known amongst the criminal underworld to cooperate with outlaws and ferry supplies for them. A Smuggler would no doubt faster cooperate with the pirates than fight against them, and as long as that is reflected in the char's RP, all is good. A Smuggler is very much like a Junker, except unaffiliated to Junkers. Kind of like a Mercenary compared to a Bounty Hunter. The ID itself is definitely far from ridiculous, even if some people take it OORP'ly.
As to the Trader ID: It is unfortunate but we cannot force RP on the pure pvp element that trades only for their battleships to "pwn nubz" with. Removing the ID is no alternative really. What could be done is limit the choices of the generic trader ID to freighters only, rather than transports as well. Freelancers as wealthy as to afford large corporate transports would be far inbetween, and most of the shipping would be likely under a guise of a Sirius company. That's my opinion anyways.
' Wrote:Since the discussion mentioned the Smuggler ID, I will once again throw in my two cents for reference. As a user of the Smuggler ID, I wholly disagree with any notion of it's removal, and here's why: The Trader ID is an indication in RP that the given character is very much lawful, and engages in an entirely lawful enterprise. The Smuggler ID is not as much important to lawfuls as it is to unlawfuls. Smuggler ID indicates that this person is known amongst the criminal underworld to cooperate with outlaws and ferry supplies for them. A Smuggler would no doubt faster cooperate with the pirates than fight against them, and as long as that is reflected in the char's RP, all is good. A Smuggler is very much like a Junker, except unaffiliated to Junkers. Kind of like a Mercenary compared to a Bounty Hunter. The ID itself is definitely far from ridiculous, even if some people take it OORP'ly.
As to the Trader ID: It is unfortunate but we cannot force RP on the pure pvp element that trades only for their battleships to "pwn nubz" with. Removing the ID is no alternative really. What could be done is limit the choices of the generic trader ID to freighters only, rather than transports as well. Freelancers as wealthy as to afford large corporate transports would be far inbetween, and most of the shipping would be likely under a guise of a Sirius company. That's my opinion anyways.
The answer is in your siggy, the Junkers are the smugglers/fence men of most of Sirus. Unlawful factions should regard them as neutral as the use Junker facilities for repairs and docking and would be shoooting themselves in the foot by being unfriendly. "Junkers" are the unlawful "Zoners", they maintain a neutrality that allows them to flood 3 of the houses in Sirus with illegal goods. Theres no need for the smuggler ID IMO.
Yes, but Spear does that mean that smugglers that aren't Junkers are something unheard of? Because somehow I'm not up to that thought. Anyone can be a smuggler, as long as he has friends in the right areas, and the smuggler ID allows just that. My Junker smuggler isn't a trueborn Junker, he's an eccentric from Rheinland who hung around Junkers for long enough to get acquainted and earn some friends. Hence the smuggler ID as opposed to the Junker one. I can clearly see untagged smugglers making their way through Sirius just as easily.
Gotta say Blodo. I think it is useful for the lawful forces as well. I put the smuggler ID on my trader after I got caught by the RM with a huge amount of cardi. I regard it as kinda like having a criminal record.
However what you said is entirely correct. The smuggler ID should stay.