Junker Trader, legal.

[Elvin]

To Zelot:
Yet.... You said its Rule play server... but still, some of us prefer the Role play...sorry. You must know that Rules and roles have a lots of problems with BH-BC (like is mentioned in other 1000 threads).

And ok as you say, everyone should act exactly according to ID : So BH will attack EVERY UNLAWFULL on sight, Junkers will attack ALL corporations on sight, etc etc...

But noone exept strange people is doing that, and why? Because its ROLE PLAY server, not a rule play, thats why.

And just to the thingbefore, Junker/Zoner tagged traders are sad capitol, truth, much like theese, BH BCs, at least they personaly cant harm anyone and bring a lot of money to pirates... Theese, as well, are not aginst Rules, just aginst Roles.

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I buy things I don't want to make an impression on people I don't like.

[Jose Culebra]

Man this is still going on? Well the other Culebras are in it so I will jump in.

Look at your own post..

Junkers
Junker ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

FA
Pirate ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

Gaian
Pirate ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

GC
Pirate ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

LWB
Pirate ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

Unioners
Pirate ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

Its clear that Junkers are not considered Pirates by whoever made the IDs. Now who was that?

They say Junkers are unlawful BH can KOS them

We say BH can only attack Pirates, Smugglers who wont drop cargo, people with bouties on them

They say BH can attack Pirates

We say again Junkers are not Pirates show me where it says Junkers are pirates.

They say well their ID is just like the other pirates.

We say look at the ID for every other pirate its says PIRATE

Some <strike>moron</strike> guy comes in and calls all the Junkers 10 year old kids.

We ignore him :) and point to the quote above again.

I think we can do this all day.

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[Zelot]

You know what? You people are right, Junkers are not Pirates even though they can pirate, and have the same ID as all the pirate groups. So I think you should send a sanction report on the Bounty Hunter for attacking a Junker, because that is clearly against the rules.....except I did a little search of the sanction thread, and I couldn't find a single instance of a Bounty Hunter being sanctioned for OORP for killing a Junker, so this must be the first time a Bounty Hunter has ever attacked a Junker, my this is a historical event, maybe we should put up a landmark to this event, it is so unique in the world of Disco.



Elvin, I dont appreciate people misquoting me for their own purposes, I see no difference between that and lying.

Yet.... You said its Rule play server... but still, some of us prefer the Role play...sorry.

Elvin, please show me where I said that this is a rule play server, becuase I didnt, but you seem to thing I did, and are you really suggesting that you can ignore the rules for RP? What I said was that this issue is an issue of the rules of the game and not RP, it is about what the ID says, not the way people RP Junkers or Bounty Hunters. There are discussions about RP and there are discussions about rules.

in short, can these sods shoot me hauling legal goods in a battlecruiser or anything? and why. because I figured a junker was a case-by-case basis, maybe like gaians, some might demonstrate, some might start shooting people, you cant kill the first on sight, but the second you can.

This is what started this discussion, and it is clearly a question about the rules of the game. Whether someone can do something and still be within the rules of the game. Please dont try to make me out to be someone who doesnt RP, or thinks that it doesnt matter, because people here know that is not true, this is infact a question of the rules of the game, not a question of RP. NOW ELVIN, that doesnt mean I say throw RP out the window, or that this isnt an RP server, but the fact remains, disco would not be what it is, if there were no rules. That doesnt make it a "rule play" server vs a RP server, you are just trying to make a point, but lying, and doing a poor job of it.

Finally, for me it comes down to this... Are Junkers allowed to Pirate? Well they are, so that makes them Pirates, and untill I hear diffrent from an admin, I am not backing down on this one.

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[Elvin]

Elvin, I dont appreciate people misquoting me for their own purposes, I see no difference between that and lying.
Elvin, please show me where I said that this is a rule play server, becuase I didnt, but you seem to thing I did

...

...if you say we play on an RP server and not a Rule play server you are wrong

...

I grabbed your word very hardly, I admit, altough you said it. Dont call me a liar.

And I belive rules are here to encourage (or better said force) the RP to take place... RP is first and rules are here to support it. Rules are here supported by RP... that was like it sounded. If you paly exactly by rules and IDs, It emans total war, without any talks... cos BH ie will attack anything slightly unlawfull, Junkers anything lawfull... Simply total war... That would be nasty. The RP is here to prevent it... So its not so easy like when one mets the second, only one can survive (Of course in some cases that is the right solution)

I dont think the BH and Junker meeting, what started this discussion, has violated rules in any way... Thats the fact, and I never said he did violated rules... But what he did was that he raped RP very hard ... Its the classical " U red to me die " case I fear.... But you are here long enough to know that the RP is not about shooting on everything red on scanner, especially if its cargo ship with water... And I know that you know that.

...

Ok the glitch between us... I think as well that asking for any kind of sanction on that BH is stupid and not really even possible, because how I said, he havent violated rules... I gues you got me wrong...Like if I told that he should be sanctioned...So no.

...

Ad sorry for being so offensive to you... Its just... No matter where, who or what Im doing, on All chars ( Junker, KNF, Zoner, Freelancer...) I always meet up with BHGs simply violating rules, or at least raping the RP... No matter what faction I ma, always have problem with BHGs, especially with the ones in BC...so Im kinda pissed and was little angry on you for justifiing them...so Im sorry for that cos its NOT your fault.
-
As we agreed in other topic about BHG - It clearly not about the faction, its only about the players, the fact "not too good" players often join BHG... It hurts all the Hunters in Sirius at the end...

So All good? I think I can see your point at least, and I hope u got mine now.


Sorry for all too long post...

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I buy things I don't want to make an impression on people I don't like.

[Kuun-Lan]

i know what junkers want...... they want to pirate freelly becuz they can demand cargo, they can ask for tax.. they can join unlawfull military ops.

but they dont want to be treated like criminals pirates unlawfuls...its all the same

well from rule 6.1 to rule 6.23 thers isnt a single mention to junker id
there isnt a single mention about quasi bulls**** id
so then junkers are what? a forgotten id? did the admins forgot to list junker id or junker id is listed as a pirate id???

who said junkers npcs dock at lawfull planets?? ... its true they dock...
and they demand cargo too near those planets right in front of all ... police navy military..in my opinion some pirate factions do the same but do it far from the house sistems junkers do it in front of police...

shame on you junkers..

and you want to be treated like quasi legal....baaahahahh

[Jose Culebra]

I see Kuun can't get your point across so you resort to cursing good job.

Most Junkers do not demand cargo at all. I for one would not mind if it was taken out of the ID. No Culebra has ever pirated yet you want to lump us all in the same boat because you had a bad day with a Junker.

How about you don't post until you grow up?

Shame on you Kuun.

Junkers
Junker ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

FA
Pirate ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

Gaian
Pirate ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

GC
Pirate ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

LWB
Pirate ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

Unioners
Pirate ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

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[Zelot]

I see Kuun can't get your point across so you resort to cursing good job.

Most Junkers do not demand cargo at all. I for one would not mind if it was taken out of the ID. No Culebra has ever pirated yet you want to lump us all in the same boat because you had a bad day with a Junker.

How about you don't post until you grow up?

Shame on you Kuun.

Junkers
Junker ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

FA
Pirate ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

Gaian
Pirate ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

GC
Pirate ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

LWB
Pirate ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

Unioners
Pirate ID grants its owner right to scan other ships and demand cargo

You keep putting up those ID's and all your doing is showing that the Junker ID is exactly the same as the Pirate ID. Now, you may not Pirate, but there are Junkers who do. Now, My Rouge never pirate, but should he not be considered a pirate by lawful forces? Of course he should be treated like a pirate, he is part of a group that takes part in pirating, the exact same could be said for your Jukner Jose, he may not pirate, but he is part of a group that does.

edit, and Jose, I would refrain from commenting on the way other people make thier point, as you have not been doing a very good job of it yourself.

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[Jose Culebra]

Actually what I am showing is that they are not alike. Notice pirate is highlighted in red. Notice it is not in the Junker ID. Maybe you did not notice?

and Zelot I will comment on whatever I please. It is funny that you just did to me what you told me not to do to others.

And like Cesar I am tired of arguing with never mind.

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[Elvin]

Geez Zelot, I wonder why u say Im a Liar, and when I answer you dont react.

And Jose, good point and dont let yourself be provoked by Kuun, hes just trying to make this topic more flamy than it is...

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I buy things I don't want to make an impression on people I don't like.

[Zelot]

Actually what I am showing is that they are not alike. Notice pirate is highlighted in red. Notice it is not in the Junker ID. Maybe you did not notice?

and Zelot I will comment on whatever I please. It is funny that you just did to me what you told me not to do to others.

And like Cesar I am tired of arguing with never mind.

What you are showing is that only three words in the Entire ID are different, out of some 75 words. That would make junker 1/25th different than pirates, that is not a whole lot of difference, and the only part that is different is the name.



back to the heart of this discussion

6.15 Owners of Bounty Hunter/Mercenary/Freelancer IDs have a right to attack:

- Pirates
- Traders ships carrying smuggled goods and refusing to drop them
- (not for FL ID) Lawful and unlawful players with a bounty on their heads

Now by the logic that where it means pirate, it is exclusive to ID's that say pirate, that would mean that Bounty Hunters are not allowed to attack nomads. The problem with that logic is Bounty Hunters are supposed to be fighting nomads or something. I think it is more likely an oversight that the rule says pirates instead of Unlawful.


AND AT ELVIN

...if you say we play on an RP server and not a Rule play server you are wrong

What that means is that the Disco RP server is both, it cannot be one and not the other. I am not saying we are not playing on an RP server, I am saying that those terms are not mutually exclusive, meaning just because it is an RP server does not mean it doesnt have rules or that RP comes before rules, and just because it has rules does not make it a rule play server, with no RP. It is both, and if you had looked at my entire comment instead of the single line you thought would help your argument you would have seen that.

This is the problem, and one of the reason the admins have had so much trouble with OORP setups and ships and such. RP does not override the rules. The admins are setting up a prosess for this, but the real problem is that people seem to think the rules dont matter. They do, if you say we play on an RP server and not a Rule play server you are wrong, go out and break the rules and see what happens. If you think this is the way disco works

I am talking about the fact that following the rules is just as important as RP, not saying this isnt an RP server, but it seems you are going to see what you want to in whatever anyone says anyway.

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