Bs| to Order indies

[Eternal]

Please forgive me for not reading the past 3-4 pages where Akuma was spamming.

First I'd like to say that I'm glad to see some changes into the current Order. It seems dedicated players are once again trying to improve things for all of us. I think that the Orders , how should I put this , indie comunity is actually one of the capable ones , minus some people.

Now , I wasn't going to participate in this ,but since Mirage is totaly in the line of fire here I think that I should. My charecter was created quite some time ago now. Before the Bs| desided to represent the entire Order. I created her , just because I knew at that time that the current player faction did not represent the Order as a whole. That is why my Order admiral was created. Aldo I may have some plans for her in the future , Mirage is still a member of the Order and I think that I should stand up behind my creation at a time like this. Her role play has been established and is familiar with most if not all of the Order's representitives. Now , what is to happen to my story ? Since , I never saw my name being mentioned anywhere in the many Order topics , I thought that you have agreed to my role play.

Is there something I should know ? My entire story is based around her having said rank , I think I have proven my role play as such (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) . Also , not posting in all the other Order threads doesn't meen I've gone inactive. It just means that I don't have enought spare time or that the threads do not concern me.

I would very much apritiate some explanations about this matter.

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[Tenacity]

What this post shows is very similar to what Akumabito's posts show actually, a lack of faith in the Admins. Either that, or you are just out for literally, a powergrab.

Its not "lack of faith" - do you realize how many sanctions admins have to deal with daily? On top of people who are cheating, hacking, posing as admins themselves, or need constant slaps on the wrist to keep themselves in line?

The admins already have too much to deal with and most of them dont even get to play the game anymore because of all the work they're constantly having to do. Put yourself in their shoes - you play here because you enjoy it, correct? How would you feel if suddenly you were having to babysit half the server and never got any time to enjoy the mod anymore?

Factions have a small zone of control - their affiliation, nothing more. Admins have to deal with the entire server. Spreading the 'power' to each small group and allowing it to govern itself takes a huge workload off of the admins, and keeps the server clean of OORP players and pvp whores. All we're doing here is having the factions regulate their own affiliation to try and keep people from screwing up.

yes, we could simply post dozens of sanction reports every day, but would you really want to deal with that if you were an admin? Why even bother, when it's so much easier to allow factions to set up ship registration, and restrict what players of their affiliation can and cannot do.

Further, factions not only have to have admin approval to become official, they also have to pay a sum of 500 million. On top of that, they have to pay an additional 500 million to gain ownership of a guard system. Now, do you want to be the one to go around and tell all the faction leaders "hey, sorry guys but you paid a billion credits for nothing, because these indies - having paid nothing themselves - have just as many rights as you do, and you cant do anything about it"?

Faction leaders have earned the right through their own hard work AND payment to regulate how independents who choose to be a member of the same affiliation operate.

Well, that is what you are doing. Congratulations.

It always starts with "we want to curb OoRP" and then ends up "pay me 100 million to fly that ship or me and my thousand faction members will PVP-whore you."

I have seen it before.

Sounds like your entire argument is based on personal vendetta against people who didnt think you were good enough.

We will see what the next release brings, if cap ships are "faction only" as the selfish here want it will drive people off this server who could add to it. Frankly I find it appalling that the admins and faction leaders are this selfish and petty, but then again, most seem not even old enough to vote.

If you are happy that you made this an exclusive rather than inclusive server, you deserve to be known as another asgard.

You'll still be able to get gunboats without a guard ID and without needing access to a guard system. Frankly, most independents dont deserve anything over a gunboat, and none of them deserve even that until they can show that they're capable of a more extensive vocabulary than "lol" and "die"

Note: Admins are not biased.

Humans are biased, it's our nature. The admins are human, not machine. However, I do think most of the admins consider both sides - and the sanctions and admin actions are almost always done after the entire admin group discusses the situation in private - so their biases weigh against each other until they can make a unilateral decision.

Not any longer, the point now is to make faction leaders feel like big men at the expense of others.

Take the blindfold off akumabito.

Some of the faction leaders here are also some of the best RP'ers and generally fair-minded guys around. Dusty and Ascendancy - and in his absence SwissScorch - are incredibly good leaders and are respectful of everyone they deal with. That's one of the reasons the order has been such a 'clean' faction for so long, but with their relative inactivity lately the situation has fallen apart, and Osiris Indys are running rampant across liberty systems, not only acting OORP but talking OORP as well. The majority of them should probably never be allowed a ship larger than a light fighter, but because black squadron has not restricted order caps until now, they've gotten the big guns and they have nobody to keep them in line.

Frankly, you havent been a member of the order, and you havent been a member of any faction here for as long as most other players posting here. You've never tried to lead a faction by yourself either - I have, and doing so is what changed my mind on the situation. When I ran the junker's union, the RM, RFP, LWB, Hessians, and Corsairs all bitched at me every time a junker did something OORP in rheinland space, even though they werent part of my faction. Some idiot junker gets caught smuggling, yaps a bunch of OORP whining at the RM/RFP who caught him, and they came after me saying that I should deal with the situation.

Until you've had to do the same, seriously... shut up. You're talking out your ass here with absolutely no experience in the matter.

aslong as no one actualyl demands money for allowance, now THAT is just plain wrong.

Agreed, and none of us have ever asked money for passage or the right to purchase a ship or equipment from Omicron 100. We deny access to enemies and people who have proven themselves detrimental to the order as a whole.

I Mean do you belive that a faction such as the Order should have enough materials (INRP) to actually construct a fleet of Osiris's?

We dont. In fact, some of the new ships, from what i've been told, state specifically in their infocards that they are extremely rare, in an attempt to set a guideline on how many of them should be operational.

What im not for is the fact that a Independant Order pilot can order other Independants around, I mean no disrespect here Tenacity, just stating my oppinions. If you want to be in charge of something, then join the BS.

As I said, this has already been worked out. We're using the "Commodore" rank to label players who have been approved by the leaders of black squadron to make decisions in their absence. There are only two of us currently, myself and tenabras - I've been around as an order character for roughly 6 months, stewcool/tenabras has been here MUCH longer, and both of us known the order inside and out - how it should behave, where it should operate, what it's goals are, etc. We're also both fairly good leaders, and we both 'report to' black squadron's admirals - anything we do, we have to take responsbility for, and if black squadron doesnt like something we do, we have to face up to them.

In the past month, I've seen two of the four black squadron leaders on, and only a short few times each, for very brief periods. They are not able to be around 24/7, and they need people who are capable of leading in their absence. We've offered to fill that role, and both of us do a damn fine job of it.

BTW, I probably post 100 lines of RP a day on RPOL, real RP for RP's sake, not "I'm a robot alien hybrid ubership so I can fly this" rp.

Try it and see what I mean.

Then why dont you put that same effort forth here instead of spending your time writing 100 lines of flames and arguments a day? If you did, you probably wouldnt be as disrespected as you are.

No, the Bs| is making real threats of PvP whoring people based on on forum RP. You seem to agree with them.

Anyone who is capable of in-game RP is also capable of posting a character and ship biography in a capship registration thread. If they arent capable of such, they dont deserve the ship.

People who cannot speak english at least to a small extent should not be playing here, this is an english-speaking server and english is required in system chat - if you cannot speak english in system chat, you cannot RP with people who only speak english, or speak another language different than your own. It sounds harsh, sure - but that's something the non-english-speaking folk will have to work out for themselves.

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[Akumabito]

If you want to fly that ship, and you agree with the Bs|, then why not join the Bs| and wait your turn to move up? It's what you want for everyone else, right?

Faction leaders have earned the right through their own hard work AND payment to regulate how independents who choose to be a member of the same affiliation operate.

No, they haven't. The rules don't give them that right, and most faction leaders have done nothing for the common player to give them that right.

If you really think they deserve that right then do it the right way, don't bully and put the minority on the back of the bus. contact Igiss and have the rules changed to give the bullies the right to bully.

[n00bl3t]

Its not "lack of faith" - do you realize how many sanctions admins have to deal with daily? On top of people who are cheating, hacking, posing as admins themselves, or need constant slaps on the wrist to keep themselves in line?

The admins already have too much to deal with and most of them dont even get to play the game anymore because of all the work they're constantly having to do. Put yourself in their shoes - you play here because you enjoy it, correct? How would you feel if suddenly you were having to babysit half the server and never got any time to enjoy the mod anymore?

Factions have a small zone of control - their affiliation, nothing more. Admins have to deal with the entire server. Spreading the 'power' to each small group and allowing it to govern itself takes a huge workload off of the admins, and keeps the server clean of OORP players and pvp whores. All we're doing here is having the factions regulate their own affiliation to try and keep people from screwing up.

yes, we could simply post dozens of sanction reports every day, but would you really want to deal with that if you were an admin? Why even bother, when it's so much easier to allow factions to set up ship registration, and restrict what players of their affiliation can and cannot do.

Further, factions not only have to have admin approval to become official, they also have to pay a sum of 500 million. On top of that, they have to pay an additional 500 million to gain ownership of a guard system. Now, do you want to be the one to go around and tell all the faction leaders "hey, sorry guys but you paid a billion credits for nothing, because these indies - having paid nothing themselves - have just as many rights as you do, and you cant do anything about it"?

Faction leaders have earned the right through their own hard work AND payment to regulate how independents who choose to be a member of the same affiliation operate.

Sounds like your entire argument is based on personal vendetta against people who didnt think you were good enough.

The admins are human, not machine. However, I do think most of the admins consider both sides - and the sanctions and admin actions are almost always done after the entire admin group discusses the situation in private - so their biases weigh against each other until they can make a unilateral decision.

There is a system in place and it works fine. Regardless of Akumabito's rantings, I see less bias from Admins as a whole then from faction leaders as a whole. (Yes I do realise that some Admins are faction leaders and no I am not suggesting that Admins are at all biased.) I see you used money as a justification for this, a faction leader once said something which can be paraphrased from the following statement, "just because you power-traded for it does not mean you deserve it".

Well, I would let you evaluate my RP against other RP's in the OC capital ship registration, but unfortunately, there would need to be an RP provided by them for mine to measure against to. :lol:
(Hence, your point goes to 0.)

The statement was there for a reason which I do not expect you to comprehend.

Edit: Tenacity, I can do this all day.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Orin]

Will this continue to be a never-ending, repetitious debate, or can anyone take a step back and try to come up with a solution?

Please, we're all capable human beings here. Why not take the debate skills, and refit 'em into problem solving skills?

Compromise please. Please.

[Tenacity]

I see you used money as a justification for this, a faction leader once said something which can be paraphrased from the following statement, "just because you power-traded for it does not mean you deserve it".

A powertrader that buys a battleship has something to show for it, the ship itself.

A faction leader that spends 1 billion credits to get his faction official, and purchase a guard system, has nothing to show for it other than a note on the forums if he isnt able to control his faction and the area of space he's paid for.

Again, do you want to be the one to go around and tell all the faction leaders that they just spent a billion credits for nothing? That independents, despite having done nothing to benefit the faction themselves, have just as much power and just as many rights as that leader or the members of his faction that he has chosen to recruit?

Edit: Tenacity, I can do this all day.

Yes, beating around the bush and never providing solid arguments all day long is such a valuable skill.

Tell ya what, take a rest, you can come back and argue when you have something solid to support your side of the argument.

Will this continue to be a never-ending, repetitious debate, or can anyone take a step back and try to come up with a solution?

Please, we're all capable human beings here. Why not take the debate skills, and refit 'em into problem solving skills?

Compromise please. Please.

There already is a solution, it was in the first post. People who are deemed unworthy of their capital ships will no longer be able to use them, and people who are deemed unworthy of buying new capital ships wont be allowed to.

It's a simple solution, you've just got all these indies who realize they know nothing of RP and dont want to lose their ships because of it that are causing an argument.

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[Turkish]

Simply allowing for well thought out, represented and portrayed alternative role-plays is all I ask for from Bs|. Should they provide that clause it allows for both the option of RPing off the beaten track, and for them to enforce their self-proclaimed power.

I dislike totalitarian control systems.

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I have a fetish for all things Norse.

[n00bl3t]

A powertrader that buys a battleship has something to show for it, the ship itself.

A faction leader that spends 1 billion credits to get his faction official, and purchase a guard system, has nothing to show for it other than a note on the forums if he isnt able to control his faction and the area of space he's paid for.

Again, do you want to be the one to go around and tell all the faction leaders that they just spent a billion credits for nothing? That independents, despite having done nothing to benefit the faction themselves, have just as much power and just as many rights as that leader or the members of his faction that he has chosen to recruit?
Yes, beating around the bush and never providing solid arguments all day long is such a valuable skill.

Tell ya what, take a rest, you can come back and argue when you have something solid to support your side of the argument.
There already is a solution, it was in the first post. People who are deemed unworthy of their capital ships will no longer be able to use them, and people who are deemed unworthy of buying new capital ships wont be allowed to.

It's a simple solution, you've just got all these indies who realize they know nothing of RP and dont want to lose their ships because of it that are causing an argument.

Considering all the other things I have said to faction leaders, I will if you want.

Beating around the bush? I apologise for implying that the RP for your OC Destroyer was insufficient and then when you called me on it I never brought it up again. I would also like to apologise for claiming that you are flaming the thread with independent/faction arguments, when in fact all you are doing is saying that forum RP is not and should not be a prerequisite for playing the game.

Oh wait, I did not beat around the bush by doing those things. I wonder who did?

It is not a viable solution, and as such the TO| arose.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Akumabito]

It's a simple solution, you've just got all these indies who realize they know nothing of RP and dont want to lose their ships because of it that are causing an argument.

All these indies are a significant number or people on the servers that the factions and their lapdogs are willing to throw out for one guy.

If the faction is truly buying that power, it should be a billion a month, and even then they shouldn't have it, because if that faction leader isn't leader enough to keep from bullying to get his way, then the leader part should be dropped.

What part of fun for all don't you understand?

[Robert.Fitzgerald]

I would rather that players with *any* ship require at least a speck of RP to fly their ship. Nothing complicated, not even a forum story (unless you want to). Just show the fellow players around you - yes not just faction members - that you aren't here just because its a good sized server for PVP.

Capital ships don't really need more responsibility than a fighter or bomber, but their RP is certainly different. A fighter pilot and his actions are much different to commanding a vessel with crew. There should be a distinction in game between the two ship RP types, but one type shouldn't be forced into a word limit or anything. Both roleplay stories, logs, ingame actions whatever should be the same level of depth.

By this, I mean, show in-game that you roleplay. You shouldn't "have" to come up for an examination by a faction, because you can simply hop in game and show them that you aren't one of those ignorant players. I think that option should be explored more by faction registers/restrictions, as not everyone can write 1-2 pages of their story in immaculate English.

A log on a fighter pilot should be just as "required" as a ship-requisition request in one of these registrations.

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