actually - the point of the thread is .... that i wonder if it would be beneficial to write up faction chronologics/histories - and how they are "officially" to be perceived.
cause - as we can see... the ideas of how they "ought" to be roleplayed are quite far from one another. - for that ... zoners is not the only faction that might benefit from an official description. - mind, such a description might also be detrimental towards ppls roleplay.
' Wrote:actually - the point of the thread is .... that i wonder if it would be beneficial to write up faction chronologics/histories - and how they are "officially" to be perceived.
cause - as we can see... the ideas of how they "ought" to be roleplayed are quite far from one another. - for that ... zoners is not the only faction that might benefit from an official description. - mind, such a description might also be detrimental towards ppls roleplay.
I think putting a detriment on Zoner powertraders is a good thing, to be honest. Zoners don't belong in House space. They left for a reason.
I don't want to really drag the players into the NPC discussion, but as for the ooRP "powertraders" playing as zoners, it's only because of the misconception that they cannot be pirated.
spank them a few times, take their credits, and when the whine to the admins that their zoner got pirated and are told "tough luck bub, you're fair game" the word could and would get around.
As for the NPC faction, reading all the opinions here, I'm inclined to believe the stance of a small group of loosely knit people with a common ideal of living free of the constraints of house life. Looking at the histories of the freeports and such, it shows that they're all relatively young in comparison to the House and most pirate bases, and the movement being (outside estimate) 100 years old.
The rest of the "Houses" (taking for this instance that the zoners are looking to EVENTUALLY become a House) took how long before they were actually established within their own sphere, let alone contact with others. 200-300 years if i recall the histories (which I might not). Right now, the zoners are fledgelings, with a lot more stations than might be expected, but a grand total of just over 4000 people living on ALL the freeports (except XV, no data given). Assuming the population of all the other stations except Canaria (Ames, Sparta, Lividia, etc) and excluding Gammu and Primus (for good reasons) as being "large" stations, there's maybe around ten thousand true zoners around the whole of sirius on the stations.
Now (gross overestimation) double that number for the zoners who are flying about sirius on their own ships of fortune, and 20000 people does not a "vast superpower" make, even with a dozen Juggernauts. Now there's probably 3-4 Juggernauts around, one at freeport11, and another in O49 and MAYBE one more roving the cosmos. The Fearless Destroyer's infocard states that it is the backbone of the Zoner fleet. OK, so 12-18 of them, and a shedload of fighters. that's IT.
based on all that, my opinion is the zoners are based almost solely on insinuation, innuendo, and outright lying to cement their position playing one side against the other with them the balance point.
Back to the pirating thing. Now, all that being said, yes, the zoners could tell a pirate "you shouldn't do that, or us zoners will take away your rights to our stations". But if this is done, would the pirates A)scoff, trade with the junkers, and blow up any zoner they see, making the zoners weaker and possibly ripe for a full-scale assault or B) skip that route, threaten zoners with full-scale war with perhaps the whole of whatever side of the corsair/outcast alliance they're with, and wipe them out completely?
All pretty far-fetched scenarios i'm sure, but still not outside the realm of possibility.
Quote:I don't want to really drag the players into the NPC discussion, but as for the ooRP "powertraders" playing as zoners, it's only because of the misconception that they cannot be pirated.
This is actually not always true.
Since Zoners are neutral to everyone, lots of people do this so that NPCs don't shoot at them or disrupt them while they trade.
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
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Unselie, I never mentioned anything about Zoners and friends. Zoners want to be on friendly terms with all factions and it's what they strive to do. I'm not so sure your analysis of the Mollies would be correct as they've been fighting what they believe to be an oppressive government for some time.
Yes, Jammi, I did mention Canaria in another thread. So does that give Bretonia grounds to find it and perform a hostile, military take-over? I think not. If they do then they are no better then a common criminal nation. Nazi Germany comes to mind taking over European nations "because they could."
And you are quite correct, HeavyMetalQueen:
Quote:So I guess in other words I think they should remain neutral and peaceful unless somebody is attacking them or threatening their stations.
It's what Zoners try to do so when I hear of people talking about invasion, it makes me wonder a bit.
I will say one good thing about Bretonia, it does a better job in patrolling it's space than some houses do.
Quote:Yes, Jammi, I did mention Canaria in another thread. So does that give Bretonia grounds to find it and perform a hostile, military take-over? I think not. If they do then they are no better then a common criminal nation. Nazi Germany comes to mind taking over European nations "because they could."
I think, perhaps, you misunderstand Bretonia's conditions. It is already fighting a war, a losing war, with a more powerful house, in the hopes of holding on to a planet that no one will be able to live on for decades. They have three livable planets. One is feeding all of Bretonia. Another is the capital, and a third is a planet wide factory. Rhienland has five populated worlds. Liberty has five. Kusari has four. Bretonia has three. Bretonia's largest social problem is overcrowding. Planets are the most pressing issue in Bretonian politcs. The only criminal group in bretonia (considering mollies their own nation) is soley interested in defending planets. If you suppose Bretonia wouldn't seize a sparsely populated, fertile, and livable planet which is sitting in its back yard, you really don't understand Bretonia. Bretonians are interested in the good of Bretonia, not their international image. Seizing that planet is well in the interest of Bretonia.
Moreover, I'll forward the thought that, since you suggested it exists, if Bretonia didn't already know about it(which I have explained is ridiculous in numerous places) They would have found it. It wouldn't even consume much of bretonia's energies. Just a footnote in some planetary intellegence agency, a few men, maybe a few hundred, a few hundred million paid to bounty hunters, Zoners captured and tortured...And, suddenly, the Crown would know. But, I'm asumming they knew about it. Otherwise, Holiday betrayed the biggest zoner secret in that thread. And I don't think diplomats are that stupid.
Bretonia is based on Brittian. Victorian brittian, for that matter. I'm sure someone can provide me with numerous examples of Brittian seizing territory 'Because it furthers the interests of the empire', and the natives be damned.
EDIT:
Furthermore, you said this:
Quote: To invade a Zoner home planet, the only one they have, would draw more enemies against a house system than it would anything else.
Which implies you're hoping your friends will come help you. Who's going to be drawn against Bretonia, if not the friends of the Zoners? The neutral parties? I suspect they might try to get a peice of the Zoner pie, too.
' Wrote:Also, can someone with more knowledge than me let me know where Zoner NPCs are spotted? Would I be right in saying that next to zero convoys actually fly through House space?
Zoner NPCs are found in the systems with freeports, as well as (to a small extent) in the adjacent systems. Quite interestngly, if the system containing the freeport contains a trade lane, they will use that rather than resorting to the jumpholes.
EDIT: Ok, a small survey of NPC activity was conducted, the results of which show: Zoner trade convoys operate in house space bordering systems that contain freeports. Most of the runs are to/from their bases. However, they do origionate from house planets (encountered 2 trade convoys from planet Hamburg), but all end on a Zoner base.
Only one anomaly was detected: a convoy hauling consumer goods from Shikoku to Colorado (via Aimes). Unfortunately, solid data on these convoys' start/end points is hard to come by they will only reveal a base on their trade route if it is in the same system.
However, I think we can safely assume that the freeports in the border worlds depend on the houses for at least a portion of their basic needs.
IMO zoners are "Closer" in diplomatic relations to the corsairs than with outcasts. I dont know i just dont like passing through omicron alpha ... makes me nervous.
' Wrote:IMO zoners are "Closer" in diplomatic relations to the corsairs than with outcasts. I dont know i just dont like passing through omicron alpha ... makes me nervous.
Havn't you heard? That's cause we're ALLIED to the nomads! OMG OMG
no - that is cause zoners and outcasts don t share a system like the corsairs and the zoners. - but the relationship between the zoners and the corsairs is not too great ( as opposed to the relationship between corsair players and zoner players )
the outcasts and zoners are much more "neutral" ... or they simply don t care much. but - the zoners have more important relationships with the corsairs than they have with the outcasts - food deliveries to crete is just one of them.
for the zoners, the corsairs are easier to steer, cause the corsairs are driven by basic needs like food for ( still ) a great part. - the outcasts are mostly self sufficient.