Guard Systems

[marauder]

Also, I think guard system ships should be increased in difficulty, as I see Zoners in FALCONS in Omicron-54, with an eagle leading. It should be all Eagles.

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Have you seen the weapons their using?

Because they're still gonna rip you in half even if they are falcons and your in a viper.

You can't make a missions given in one system for another system. You plant mission areas inside the system, and thats where the bases send you. It can't go from one system to another. Good idea though.

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Actually theres several places that give missions for a different/the next system.

Malta and ibiza have sold missions for omicron beta and theta, ruiz has sold missions in sigma 19 and theta, the junkers in NB have sold missions for the surrounding systems, the xenos regularly give missions into NY and sometimes keplar.

Though the probable reason igiss didn't do guard missions is because that would mean you can get guard tags.

Besides which the admins are still trying to find out which missions, if any, are causing lag.

So is adding more into the mod really such a good idea?
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As for your other ideas, it makes sense to me to have all the capital ships sold on guard bases, or the factions best ship sold on the guard station.

That way people have to get tagged at, the very least, with the faction before they can buy that factions best ship/capships.

eg. The RM guard sell the RH gunboat, the RH cruiser and the RH BS.

The order guard sell the osiris, the nepthys and the talon (as the talon infocard does say it's an order fighter...)

The police guards could all sell mk2 LFs, britonian police would sell the hussar, the kusari police selling the wyrm, etc.

The only problem I can see with this idea is that the zoner guard system will be selling 3 BS's. The juggernought, the Battlestar and the Battlestar Advanced.

Plus currently you have to get your rep with the guard factions to move up about 4 or 5 bars before they'll sell you anything.

With only assassination missions moving the rep bar at all your gonna be spending a long time doing missions first.

[Igiss]

Missions are a complicated thing to make. They seem to depend somehow on faction properties, possibly even hardcoded, therefore some factions won't give missions, and some factions are not eligible for missions (Nomads) even if everything required for missions is available.

Mission zone is actually a 'Vignette' zone that's specified in system ini file. When this zone is in an asteroid field, there's a small zone right in the center of Vignette that provides some free space for mission stations. To tell the truth, I was always lazy to place these small zones, but no matter... if 'Vignette' overlaps with a population zone or (not sure) patrol, a mission can be given at the nearby base.

Mission giving depends on the following stats:
- Faction properties;
- Faction weight on certain base;
- Base properties (NPCs on this base, etc);
- Population zone/patrol properties;
- Vignette zone properties;
- Reputation of related factions towards one another (missions are given only against hostile factions);
- Ship properties of the faction you'll be fighting (what ships will spawn).
You see that it's all very complicated, possibly one of the most complicated areas of modding. That's why mission lag problem bothers me so much... as I didn't mess with missions except for some minor changes, I don't see how missions could cause lag. But that's slightly away from our topic.

Due to reasons I've mentioned, Guardians probably won't have missions. Two more things are either impossible or just too complicated - first, shipyards (many factions have no ship-selling bases, so new base files will have to be created), second - not mentioned here, but still - stations with ship models. Unfortunately, bases require many additional hardpoints to work. I made Battlestar II a base cause it was initially a base that I converted into a ship. All House battleships also serve as bases, and making normal ships out of them is no problem. Much more difficult vice versa, making base out of a simple ship.

[Korrd]

I think the same as Dab. The Guard factions should have more firepower.
They should have all top of the line fighters, and codenames. That way they will be a real threat.

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[McNeo]

<SNIP>
Also, I think guard system ships should be increased in difficulty, as I see Zoners in FALCONS in Omicron-54, with an eagle leading. It should be all Eagles.

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I killed 2 molly guards who were in wolfhounds. The rest in warewolfs were very hard though. If the difficulty is increased any more, then it will take a whole fleet to enter and win a battle against the NPC's.

I do agree with the suggestion that they should have top of the line fighters. Not so keen on the codenames though. If they are implemented, mabey they should be dropped by the pilots somtimes after a kill. Mabey about the same ratio that nomad blasters are dropped. In this case, the codenames should be very good as it takes hours to harvest blasters (for me anyway)

[Alpha 429]

Gaurd system NPC's definately need to be made harder because as Obliterator in my raven claw i can fly into the GMG guard system (they fly Eagles and i think they use the same weps as the zoner guard but im not completely sure) and take on 8 of them easily. to be fair they take a while to die sometimes but as long as i keep manouvering they couldnt get me. Sometimes id get through a second wave before my bats and bots ran out and i had to retreat with my horde of expensive pilots. So a difficulty booster is needed. As for the use of codenames well i think they should be limited to House Guard ships because they are supposed to be super secret and were originally built by thme anyway. But i dont think they should drop them AT ALL when they get killed.

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[marauder]

Top of the line fighters = yes

Codenames = depends on which faction,

Drop weapons = no way,

Reasons, the guard are obviously going to have the best equipment, same goes for weapons.

However I think that only the RM, BHG, outcast and corsair guards should have any codenames at all because it's their fighter wrecks which drop them.

Plus they should only have 1 pair of codenames on each fighter and they also shouldn't drop any weapons/equipment at all.

Ammo is fine, but not the weapons, have you seen the stats of the fury class 8/9 guns that the zoner guard, xeno guard (and possibly others) use?

It's an extremely powerful weapon, sure the energy usage on it is pretty high but that still doesn't mean players should even have access to it, let alone be able to loot and mount them.

[Dab]

Some of you misinterpreted my statement of selling the biggest, and/or best ship at the guard shipyards. They will be sold in Freelancer, AND the guard base. So you don't have to get that faction neutral to get it. Its just alot easier for player factions, and those friendly with the guard to get them. Plus, it makes more sense in role-play.


@Igiss, Shipyards aren't a problem. I can make some pretty complicated stations such as those pretty easily. Sam I take it, can as well, if Munich is anything to judge from. Though I wouldn't call that base "easy" to make..


@marauder, the shipyards will only be selling that faction's main BS. So though the Zoners construct and sell the BSI, BSA, and the Buggy Juggy, they will only sell the Juggernaut. I MIGHT add in gunboats as well. Likewise, they will sell their best fighter. Such as Eagle is already sold at Freeport XV, the RM base will sell Wraths, GMG sell Eagles, etc.

Also, completely agree on the no-weapons dropping for the guard fighters. They should have their highest leveled guns (I think I'm going to ask Igiss if we can make lvl 9-10 versions of ALL faction guns (ie: Bundschuh gun class, Hessien guns, Rogue guns). If he does, we can have ships with guns that do some real damage. Also, pirates can use their faction weapons without being to weak to fight transports, and military ships. (You complained about my Wraith.. Well now you see why I had to use something else. Bundschuh highest gun is level 7-8.)

For codenames.. No, I don't think any should ever have codenames. If any should, it'd be the RM and they would be newly designed codename weapons.


@McNeo, the point of the guard system fighters is that you should NEED a fleet to attack. They are meant to be fortresses AND backup forces for player factions as well. So any attacking force will need a LARGE fleet to take on the defenders and their NPC allies. That is why they start hostile to you.


Now for my current plans, of which I think most of you would like to know of:

All house military guard systems will have large shipyards, about the size of the Zoner's new one. But instead of 2x Shipyards (double sized shipyards) they will have twice the amount of smaller ones. Since their battleships are smaller than the juggernaut. Though I would think RM shipyard would have some 2x shipyards in it. But I think Angel wants to do that system. Outcasts and Corsairs will need some 2x ones as well.

All factions that create their own cruisers, frigates, or battleships get shipyards. Places with battleships get large shipyards, places that make frigates get slightly smaller ones, and factions that make cruisers and lower get small shipyards. Then large companies that use transports might have small, Norfolk-shipyards sized, shipyards constructing transports. (I can add in non-piloted transports that just sit there with FLE).

I also plan to add in fighters (I'll use wreck models, such as those in Sigma-13) to the smaller ship docks in the shipyards. These will be able to be shot like wrecks, but they won't drop anything. They are simply decorative and add in a more real-feeling to the systems. Likewise, I'll try the same with battleships, using the no-dock Liberty one for the liberty shipyards. And if Igiss can lock stations from being docked, I'll also add in RH BS-stations into those shipyards, and Bretonian/Kusari ones, and have him lock them closed.

Some pirate systems will be asteroid systems, or have asteroid fields in them. Such as pirate factions without their own capships, wouldn't be hindered by asteroids, and can use them against enemies, such as house militaries.

Other factions will have other types of decorative, and purposeful things added into their systems. Such as factories, training stations, research stations, mine fields, and the like.

All guard ships will be increased in level by a few degrees (ship goes in levels of 1 to 38 I think). I'll be testing each level to find which one makes them deadly, yet not god-like.

Needless to say.. I'm likely not to come out with any actual new systems next release.. Just as many massively updated guard systems as I can do before next version.

And the iffy one, will be that I want to have some kind of trade routes going in or through guard systems. Nothing like the Cambridge route, or the Diamond route. But still decent profits. Its just this sacrifices profit for enhanced defense. Pirates aren't likely going to be able to get you in a guard system. Unless they are in battleships, which they cannot pirate in anyways. This will only happen if Igiss okays it, and he might wish to do the routes himself to avoid any guard systems making too much more than others.



P.S. Igiss, could you make a missions and capship patrol tutorials for us? It would help.. Especially the missions bit..

EDIT: And Infocard help would be VERY useful.. I hate those things..

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[DarkOddity]

I am in love with factional cap ships being sold on guard bases. In my opinion (even if it's a new character) you should have to get the rep before you buy the cap ship. Also it would be a way to enforce Ship RP.

Even if the ships are still sold on bases outside guard systems atleast then there will be "High Quality" production yards identifiable as cap ship production facilities. Then you can RP that you purchased the ship at it's "liscensed vendor" it jumped in and you boarded your new prize.

Guard system NPC's do need an increase in firepower. They need to be deadly enough to make any enemy force entering in *requre* atleast 2 fighters tasked to dispatching the guard fighters. When Dboy Liberator and myself chased a phantom cruiser (Desolator?.. whichever one is Maruauder) the guard NPC's didn't pose a real threat, on initial engagement in the system I flew right at his nomad cruiser un-checked by the guard NPCs

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