' Wrote:Okay so you can't make folks dance to your whims, you can stop them behaving like idiots though. Look at the LN's capship policy, no need to sign on any line, just if you do you get incentives and treated like the official faction. And given the rules are very simple, and based around the concept of fairplay and adherence to the server rules, enforcing it is allowed.
I've seen plenty of stupid and idiotic behavior that we can now no longer stop from happening.. Outcasts shooting BAF wouldn't be against rules, but it would be stupid and idiotic. Yet we can't go and destroy that ship for the violation of the OC's deals with the BAF. Pray tell how the official factions can stop people from behaving like idiots in ways that the unofficial factions cannot.
And I've just finished searching for the Liberty Navy's capship policy.. I couldn't find it anywhere. The only thing I COULD find was a list of allowed independent capships and the statement that unless your on that list, your ship is to be decommissioned. I don't mind at all the Liberty Navy doing this since the cap spam was insane.. But I don't see how their restriction is in any way special, and therefor allowed by this new rule made specifically against official factions regulating indie capships in any way.
And you have said that which I had said in my last post.. Based on the concept of fairplay and adherence to the server rules.. If they are violating server rules it is an issue to send to the admins via a rule violation report, not as a cause to blow them up. In this, neither official or unofficial factions are any different. Both can take the same actions, whether that be reporting them for breaking the rules, or by killing them for betraying their faction.
' Wrote:Dab if you do not own the system then any system made MUST be in accordance with the Mod. A system owning faction gets to mold their system to their RP. Any other system is molded to the overall RP.
Del, I make systems. I know that a system must be in accordance with the mod.. That is universal. Faction-owned or not, it must still adhere to the mod. I can't put something in a guard system that contradicts something elsewhere in the mod. For example, whether they wanted it or not, I could NOT put Corsair guns on an IMG base, or vice-versa. That would go against the mod. IMG and Corsairs have a tender agreement to attack the Outcasts and leave each other be.. Not a full blown alliance and weapons deal, therefor, officially owned or me making it for the hell of it, I cannot put their weapons on each other's bases. So please tell me what I can do if a faction owns it that I cannot do if I'm making it on my own decision.
' Wrote:Official factions get to set policy that can and has shaped the way Disco works and plays. The entirety of the RM's RP is not as vanilla but it is pretty much set in stone as discovery canon, and they couldn't have done that without being official.
The only policies the factions could have made have been taken from them. That is the entire point of this post. They no longer HAVE any policies to set because rules restrict them from it. Right now the RM could no longer regulate their indies, like they used to, nor can they regulate the Rheinland capships like they have until now. I think it is quite unfair to talk about only the Outcast's capship restrictions, which for the past few months have only been to deny access to the Dreadnaught to anyone without the Council's permission, and then ignore the RM, Corsair, and everyone else's restrictions.
And your example of the RM does nothing here.. Everything they have done could have been done by a well-RPing, persuasive, and well-versed independent. Again, tell me here what RM has done that an indie could not by the current set of rules.
' Wrote:Official factions should set an example of how a faction plays, not be determined to dictate how the NPC faction should be run.
We try to set an example, but what do we do when people don't pay attention to that example and then go do some completely against Discovery canon, but within rules? We can take absolutely no action anymore. And what small actions we CAN take, the independents can as well.
' Wrote:The XA bought and designed Tau-45 not for themselves but for the Xenos as a whole, one of our overriding desires was to have Xeno use ships placed within for all Xenos to be able to buy, not just the XA.
Forgive me if I seem thick-headed, but how does this show how an official faction is in any way better than an unofficial faction? Some random player could have gone and paid for everything XA bought.
' Wrote:The same ethos was used when designing Cassini, I don't want to keep Indy LR out of Cassini, it's their guard system too. Just because I currently own it, doesn't mean others shouldn't be able to use it.
See above.
' Wrote:Yes Official Factions are generally favoured over unofficial ones. Why? Because they set the tone of the RP on Discovery. Factions create guidelines that folks tend to follow. Official factions can set laws within their ZOI. And then they can enforce them. They can also grant the right for others to enforce them. Official factions are valid, and frankly I've not heard much complaint about this from many faction leaders other than the 101st. So if anyone really does have a complaint, feel free to PM me. I'm listening.
I don't see official factions favored in the least bit. That is my whole point here. I don't see any favoritism at all. We aren't allowed to set the tone of RP on Discovery, because we'd end up breaking a rule. Factions create guidelines they cannot enforce, because of rules against the official factions. Factions can set laws within their ZoI that they cannot enforce, because of rules against them. They can also grant the right for others to enforce them, but then they also cannot do so, because of rules against it.
And I'm not here speaking for a faction leader. I'm here speaking for myself, because I have the same issues as many others. What difference does it make if I'm a faction leader or not one? Or are we making up for these lacks by only listening to what the faction leaders say? If so, I'm quite glad, considering how much they have been neglected and ignored.
I've sat here and received countless things an official faction can do.. But I have not received anything an official faction can do that an unnofficial faction cannot do just as well if not better. You have not answered my questions in the least, nor have I heard anything coming close to it other than about system ownership, which I believe I have answered sufficiently.
I'm not afraid to publicize my views and opinions, and I do them here. Criticize them and me all you want, but I'm not going to back down unless someone offers me a real answer that convinces me, or something is done.
' Wrote:But it's always the same problem, someone flyies around, kills everyone around, camps planet, uses some very OoRP BS... the Mr. Official comes around and says " Hey, you can't do that! "... Well Mr. Official always get banned, fo he is such a dictator. Sorry buit this is just ridiculous. I think Official factions should have the rights to stop such people.
There are good things and bad things about being an official faction, but I think you're missing the MOST important one.
COMMUNITY
By making yourself an official faction, you open the door to a community and server that you can really be a part of. Unofficial factions are good, but they can't change the server. Official factions actively evolve the story line of the Sirius system. You truly become a member of a gaming community.
Also, official factions are great for new players. They set good examples for RP and some help new payers get stated. (The BAF did it for me, at least)
' Wrote:One thing official factions CAN do: Make laws and enforce them. Liberty's embargo against Rhineland, Bretonian's laws against trading with Kusari. Declaring things contraband, requiring merc registration, etc. The player factions can't force indies of their NPC faction to enforce these laws, nor can they force indies to honor ceasefire agreements and such things (like when the BAF and Mollys were 'friendly', or BAF with Outcasts, or Bs| with the LN), but they CAN force other people to follow their rules. Unofficial factions cannot.
Liberty's embargo against Rheinland, Bretonian's laws against trading with Kusari. Both examples of actions an independent could also undertake. An independent BAF could not be sanctioned for stopping a trader taking goods from Bretonia to Kusari when they are in a state of war. Its completely within RP and mod canon. The only difference is the official faction can display them on the forums, while the indie must take time to explain it to everyone they stop.
' Wrote:Uhmmm...no your wrong.
If your going to answer someone, especially with that statement, back it up and tell them why they are wrong. How are they supposed to know, assuming you are correct, what the answer is? I wouldn't tolerate this being done to me, so I don't like to see it done to others. Give a proper response if your going to give any at all.
Especially when, from my experiences, what he says rings with some truth.
' Wrote:But it's always the same problem, someone flyies around, kills everyone around, camps planet, uses some very OoRP BS... then Mr. Official comes around and says " Hey, you can't do that! "... Well Mr. Official always get banned, for he is such a dictator. Sorry but this is just ridiculous. I think Official factions should have the rights to stop such people.
Edit: This is to Zelot as well.
That's what sanction reports are for. It's not up to any player or faction to police other players, all you can do is report them to the Admins. And if they can't get sanctioned for it, odds are they aren't actually doing anything wrong (even if you don't like it).
Well, when you've mentioned THAT case already... Zoner Juggernout, under Orders flag camps Manhattan. Bs blew him up. I think they do not have any right to say " Noone will attack Liberty from now on " , yea, that is actually wrong. But the faction itself should take care of individuals dangerous to both faction and everyone around.
I buy things I don't want to make an impression on people I don't like.
I'm not gonna bother reading the 4 pages here, just want to the say, the Corsair cap policy (http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29351) which aims to try and get indy caps to roleplay better, and reduce the number of capspamarmies going into Malta, has been OKed by the admins. If any indies break these rules, the factions have been given the go-ahead to rape their sorry butts.
So to a certain extent (albeit with more limitations than before) the factions can still control their indies.
I have had people complain to me because I essentially wanted respect from indies in a guard system (that the faction owns) and they have flung the right of being a indie at me eventhough he insulted me in rp... Yet I couldn't do anything because I was worried that I would get sanctioned... I don't even know how far I can go.
EDIT: oh and dabs mini gc group does exactly the same things as the official faction so we have no advantages over them because we are not a big npc faction
"Time is too precious to be idle." - Saigo Watanabe "Death is something that is inevitable, Something you cannot run away from." - Katharina Hildegard
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' Wrote:Liberty's embargo against Rheinland, Bretonian's laws against trading with Kusari. Both examples of actions an independent could also undertake. An independent BAF could not be sanctioned for stopping a trader taking goods from Bretonia to Kusari when they are in a state of war. Its completely within RP and mod canon. The only difference is the official faction can display them on the forums, while the indie must take time to explain it to everyone they stop.
If there was no official faction rules saying it's illegal, then indies and unofficial factions wouldn't be allowed to stop 'innocent' traders unless they were actually members of an enemy corporation. And the Liberty embargo on Rhineland would be particularly ooRP, since they aren't actually at war.
' Wrote:That's what sanction reports are for. It's not up to any player or faction to police other players, all you can do is report them to the Admins. And if they can't get sanctioned for it, odds are they aren't actually doing anything wrong (even if you don't like it).
And there are situations where players are being disruptive and going against game canon, but not quite violating any rules. No one can take any action to stop him. When they don't, they themselves look bad because they 'allowed' it to happen. Seen this happen to the OC factions time after time. And when they DO try to step in and do something about it, they get a warning or sanction because they tried to dictate something, then a new admin notice comes out to lay down some more restrictions.