The Zoner Gunboat

[wrathkin]

If everything would stay the same but cargo would be upped I would be a very happy Zoner indeed. With cargo as a small transport (around 1-2k) it would be awesome. I do some trading in it, but getting something out of it other than rp would be awesome.

I don't really want it up-gunned or have it's maneuverability nerfed; it fits as it is.


BW transport still has 3.6K cargo and cost 40 mil? Then I think the ZG should have ~2K cargo to make it a semi-viable choice to the BWT. What are the difference in size, armour and turrets between those ships anyway?

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John Johnson - Master of Synth.Foods-Convoy|049
Hans Adler - Synth Foods escort wing

Sebastian Wrath - Zoner in a Temporary Autonomous Zone ([TAZ]Punchin'Seb)

[sycima]

the cargo space must be liffted up...........:rtfm:

[crimecities]

When people are talking about firepower, they seem to be forgetting the duel mine slots! Those make a big difference when used against small ships!

In any case, cargo should be buffed. It's not a ship designed to be constantly deployed into combat situations.

[Jinx]

let me clear a few things up that were talked about when the ship was finally finished...

the ship is meant to follow certain characteristics - namely the Eagle idea... a LARGE ship that is very very agile. - as a matter of fact, the zoner gunboat is only matched in its turning / agility by the very tiny ( and similarly armed ) BHG gunship ( they got the same turning etc. )

now - the BHG GS is a pure military ship by a faction that glories in combat. - a feature that one can not really say about zoners. where the BHG is blunt like an axe - zoners are sneaky bastards. - it won t be THEM that will come after you and kill you... they ll just pay someone to do the dirty work - the sort of people you can hardly catch. - often, they don t even pay someone - but just drop a few comments here and there.

about the ship itself.

my original concept was indeed around 1000 cargospace. - and we discussed it in the dev forum. - at a point i decided that i d rather like to have a slightly above average cargo - but a vastly superior agility - and be asured, the zoner GB can fly circles around the order gunboat.

about the weaponry - at first glance it appears to be weak. - weaker maybe than even some transports or who knows.... some of these new assault freighters. - but it really is not.

people that believe that the twin mine launcher is just a neat little toy, a feature are mistaken.... a twin EMP mine will strip 50.000 shields off an enemy - and it costs the zoner gunboat almost no energy at all.

one must know that very few gunboats actually have the ability to drop mines - and the zoner GB drops 2 ( and no, mines don t collide with each other and explode ) laying a thick minefield in which even a destroyers shields crumple isn t too hard.

then you have 4 turrets and a small GB plant - that is not much indeed. - even 4 normal zoner turrets drain the power slowly - but it is also able to fire 2 pulse + 2 razors - along with the mines - the ship can be a nasty surprise for someone that mistakes it for a harmless transport mk2

and THAT is the point of it. - it is not meant to fight in the first place - but any pirate should know that no matter what he is flying - this ship is harder to take down than a liner or other stuff. - bombers find themselves in a minefield of dozens of nuke mines maybe - and a single reinforced / train CD will blow them to pieces - 4 turrets might not be too much - but its enough.

85k armour is average - but with the agility - its ability to survive is as great as maybe an order gunboat. - it is MUCH tougher than the BHG gunship ( due to its dual mines )

of course - when you run into many enemies - you re still in problems - but i daresay even a pirate in a gunboat will pay heavily for his daring.


from a balance point of view...

i wanted a ship that was available to almost everyone but still useful enough. so called "generic" stuff tends to be weaker than factionized stuff - and so the gunboat is weaker than some others.


i was disappointed that i couldn t convince mjolnir of 1000 cargo when we discussed it - but i realized that the ship was really good enough. - when you fly one of the heavy gunboats with 8 guns - and then fly the zoner GB, it feels like flying a spatial and then switching to an eagle.

from my point of view it is powreful enough - i have not done serious pvp with it though - but i have beaten 900k missions vs. gallic royal police - groups of 8 nomad assassins and ... ok i have totally died vs. a random spawn of 5 gallic bombers:P- but i daresay - even a battleship would have been in trouble vs. those funny bomber squadrons that spam two dozen SN on you.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Clarkie]

Yeah, as I've said though, I don't want more firepower just more cargo space.

[cmfalconer]

More cargo is the way to go. I've owned two zoner gunboats already, and would even contemplate selling my BW transport for one (or keeping it as a second ship).

1000 is too much though. I'd be happy with 825 or so; something to put it in the strata of the Armored Transport with it's mega-load of guns, but still small enough to not be called a true transport. that's still 150+ VIPs / Lane Parts, {insert large cargo here}, and as Jinx said, it's enough of a match with the armament it's got now. I've got a screamer and a ripper (no nukes) on mine along with one pulse, one razor, and two zoner GB turrets, and she does just fine vs NPCs (I don't fight PvP in it...it's supposed to run).

Give me 300 more cargo, and let her be in every other way. Good times.

@Jinx: What was the argument against giving it larger cargo space originally? If it's supposed to be a dromedary replacement, wouldn't it be OK to assume a cargo increase, even slightly (current Dromedary has 650 cargo to 560 of the Zoner GB)?

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[Jinx]

the argument was "balance" and "fairness" from what i remember. - you know - too many advantages for too little disadvantages.

i don t think that 825 or 750 or something is unreasonable - but i don t have the "big picture" of all ships - mjolnir knows that best. i d be happy if we could convince him - but i m not disappointed when we cannot.

only compared to ships like the kusari ambassador yacht and the luxory yacht - the cargo appears low. - but then i was able to check out the entirety of sirius "landmarks" and checking each single infocard ingame, connections, rumors in the gunboat without ever really getting into trouble - and that included pretty much every guard system.

i m not sure if i d been able to do the same in a yacht....

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Mastermind]

A zoner gunboat is a mixture of different sectors.

Trade, It's commonly known as a armored transport MK2 but indeed it's cargo doesn't makes it. 1K is to much, I'll got for 800/825 to. This way real traders are still better as a transport isn't 30 mil and will have more cargo space then the Zoner Gunboat.

Exploration, it has a good chance to survive, great mobility & movement. This way it has a bigger chance to survive in those dangerous systems. It's also a great RP ship to do these kind of things in, exploring in a armored transport or a Dromedary is just lame.

Combat, the Zoner Gunboat is effective in PVE but won't have that much glory in PVP. I don't think it should have more firepower as the energy is good, and also the two mine ports are a tactical advantage. The zoner gunboat will play more of a supporting role, it wont start a fight, but will assist others in their fight.

If you improve cargo hold slightly (825 is good) it will be a good ship for these 3 parts, but won't make it unbalanced. A real trader (Transport) will be cheaper and better in trading. And a faction gunboat (BHG, LN, Bret., Kusari, Rhein. ect.) will be better in combat then the ZG.

My two cents

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[mjolnir]

One of the main arguments against cargo space is that it can't have more than Zoner Destroyer (750) which is bigger and looks much more "spacious".

Now it could possibly get something like 660 cargo space. But on the other hand if you compare the size with ships like Rhienland Armored transport (600 cargo). It doesn't certainly look bigger than them.

It's also a great RP ship to do these kind of things in, exploring in a armored transport or a Dromedary is just lame.

On the same note one could say that "trading" in a Gunboat is just lame.

Combat, the Zoner Gunboat is effective in PVE but won't have that much glory in PVP.

Let's turn this around a bit - it is unpiratable ship. It can outturn and run from GBs, it can survive bombers for long enough to run. It can kill VHFs. With skilled pilots it can actually kill bombers as well.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[cmfalconer]

So...no? maybe?

Just because the destroyer LOOKS bigger, doesn't mean it'd have bigger cargo capacity. A destroyer's built to hold a larger crew compliment, ground/space troops, more mechanics, heavier weapons and equipment, and other things that the gunboat doesn't.

Yeah, trading in a "gunboat" would be "lame", but the Zoner "gunboat" isn't really one, and says so in the infocard. It's a dromedary replacement, meaning more freighter than fighter (slight pun intended). I don't have a solution to it, but "gunboat" shouldn't be the name for this ship. Perhaps "corvette" or something like that instead of "gunboat" would make this easier to swallow to those that don't agree a "gunboat" should trade.

And I wouldn't call it "unpirateable". Quite unlikely, yes, but definitely not impossible. I've rarely seen pirates working alone anymore (kudos to them all, even the rude ones), and even the best Zoner GB pilot has a difficult time evading coordinated (or even semi-coordinated) attacks.

I have a hard time summing up rebuttals, but I enjoy good discussions.

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