Battle Razors..

[Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever]

Again, with escorts.

Its unrealistic.

You are NOT going to have an escort for your derstroyer or cruiser every little place you want to go. Your just not. Therefore, We NEED adequate defense against bombers. At the very least to get them to flee, and if theyre stupid enough to get close enough to be 1 shottied by a razor, Then they deserve to be dead.

[Derkylos]

They're supposed to be used against -smaller- capital ships.

Right now there is no reason whatsoever to use battle razors against cruisers or up if you've got a light mortar equipped.

Battle razor does 35,000 damage for 350,000 energy, with a 0.1 refire rate. That's an efficiency of 0.1 damage per energy and 3,500 damage per second with constant fire.

Light mortar does 150,000 damage for 1,000,000 energy, with a 0.25 refire rate. That's an efficiency of 0.15 damage per energy and 37,500 damage per second with constant fire. Even a small cruiser can fairly easily fire a light mortar every 5-10 seconds without energy issues.

Razors are by no means meant to be used against same-class ships, they're inefficient and dont do enough damage for that purpose. They're meant to be used against small ships which are too fast for mortars to hit - those being gunboats, gunships, and even bombers - and in some cases smaller destroyers like the kusari dessie which are otherwise difficult to hit with light mortars.

Actually, a single LM drains my BH dessie's plant to nearly empty, I can't fire a single pulse or BR alongside it. Battlecruisers may be able to spam LMs, but normal cruisers can't. Having an alternative anti-hull weapon would come in useful when you want to do that little bit of extra damage but do not have the time to wait for your plant to regen.

If a bomber pilot really wants to argue, he should argue about getting hit by cruiser primaries which do 1000-1500 damage per shot per turret, use so little energy that you can actually regen while firing 5-10 turrets constantly, and have 1000m/s speed with a longer range than razors have.

The only difference here is the shock effect of getting killed in a single hit instead of getting killed with multiple hits in a short timeframe. In fact, it isnt even possible to one shot an armored bomber with a cruiser razor - it does 35k damage, most bombers have 19+k armor before armor upgrades, and 50+k armor with a mk8 fighter armor upgrade.

I observed the fight in question, and both bombers were at full hull when they suddenly exploded.

Mini Razors are currently useful for dropping shields, draining the hull on bombers and keeping the shields down on caps. They are pretty inefficient when fired at a LF or a VHF with a small profile, and they do not one shot all VHFs.

Instakill weapons are a problem because they punish the slightest mistake with an explosion, and a regen recharge.

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[Tenacity]

I observed the fight in question, and both bombers were at full hull when they suddenly exploded.

Then the bombers in question were idiots for not buying mk8 fighter armor upgrades. Even the lightest bombers with 15k hull can survive a cruiser razor with a mk8 armor upgrade, and 15 million isnt that expensive when you compare it against the 7 mil you're spending on guns. You want expensive, try 50 mil for an armor upgrade 0.5x better than your 15 mil variant, or 800 mil for one 1.5x better. Yea...

And Dab, please, go fly a cruiser and TRY to hit a BHG gunship with these things, things always look better on paper than they are in-game. Paper doesnt lag.

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[Dab]

Again, with escorts.

Its unrealistic.

You are NOT going to have an escort for your derstroyer or cruiser every little place you want to go. Your just not. Therefore, We NEED adequate defense against bombers. At the very least to get them to flee, and if theyre stupid enough to get close enough to be 1 shottied by a razor, Then they deserve to be dead.

Lets see how well you hit a thrusting and dodging Kusari Destroyer with a Supernova from 1000m away. After you do that, then come back and post about it. As it is, you have no experience in bombers, only in battleships and cruisers. I on the other hand, have flown every class of ship and have access to every class of ship at current, allowing me to do plenty of testing. I'm also not interested in one class being stronger than another, for what fun is there when you beat your opponent through a bug or unfair mechanic, or an unbalanced weapon? What I find fun is winning (or even losing, so long as the victor doesn't try to lord it over the loser) by use of skill and tactics over the opposition. I was one of the people very interested in Redcats and Ku Cats being nerfed in 4.85 to be balanced with other bombers, and I was even flying on at the time. I also agreed with lowering BD HF agility, something I was flying at the time as well. Take this as a lesson.

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[Dab]

Then the bombers in question were idiots for not buying mk8 fighter armor upgrades. Even the lightest bombers with 15k hull can survive a cruiser razor with a mk8 armor upgrade, and 15 million isnt that expensive when you compare it against the 7 mil you're spending on guns. You want expensive, try 50 mil for an armor upgrade 0.5x better than your 15 mil variant, or 800 mil for one 1.5x better. Yea...

And Dab, please, go fly a cruiser and TRY to hit a BHG gunship with these things, things always look better on paper than they are in-game. Paper doesnt lag.

Would you like some screenshots of all three bomber's loadouts? We all had Mk VIII fighter armor upgrades. And the two of us who died, died with full hull to a single hit. Take a full armored bomber out to Kusari, I'll hit you with a BR. You'll die in a single hit. This is fact, for two of us were victims of it, and three others were witnesses. The third bomber, Derkylos, who was spectating, and the destroyer's pilot. Perhaps instead of insulting people, you should do your research. Because you're making quite the fool of yourself right now.

And Tenacity.. I have. I killed it too. Very easily. Without any hull damage. I didn't even use shield batts.. I utterly destroyed the BHG GS with both guns and battlerazors, and it took very little time to do so. Again; Do research, do testing.


EDIT: And no automerge..

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[Tenacity]

Do the math, it isnt possible. Any bomber in the mod with 2.5 armor upgrade and full hull will not die to a single razor hit, unless you're trying to say that there's some hidden extra damage somewhere.

I can see how you'd get one shot if that same destroyer had knocked you down to 50-75% hull with normal guns first, but from full hull it isnt possible.

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[Derkylos]

Then the bombers in question were idiots for not buying mk8 fighter armor upgrades. Even the lightest bombers with 15k hull can survive a cruiser razor with a mk8 armor upgrade, and 15 million isnt that expensive when you compare it against the 7 mil you're spending on guns. You want expensive, try 50 mil for an armor upgrade 0.5x better than your 15 mil variant, or 800 mil for one 1.5x better. Yea...

Wait...you're saying anyone with anything except a mk 8 upgrade is an idiot? Why do we have 8 marks of armour if you're only supposed to mount one?

Also, @ the "we can't get escorts, we need things to kill bombers in 1 shot"...I can't get escorts and have to fly solo, can I kill cruisers and battleships in 1 shot, please?

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[Dab]

Do the math, it isnt possible. Any bomber in the mod with 2.5 armor upgrade and full hull will not die to a single razor hit, unless you're trying to say that there's some hidden extra damage somewhere.

I can see how you'd get one shot if that same destroyer had knocked you down to 50-75% hull with normal guns first, but from full hull it isnt possible.

Would you like to be told you're wrong by four people? (I don't know who the dest's pilot was, so not 5..)

Because we all saw it happen. Me, Jamez, Enko, and Derkylos. We were killed, at full hull, by one shot from a battlerazor. Again I say to you, are you willing to actually do testing and come to Kusari for me to prove it to you, or do you want to continue this willful ignorance so you may continue arguing?

I await your answer when I wake up tomorrow morning.

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[Tenacity]

Would you like to be told you're wrong by four people? (I don't know who the dest's pilot was, so not 5..)

Because we all saw it happen. Me, Jamez, Enko, and Derkylos. We were killed, at full hull, by one shot from a battlerazor. Again I say to you, are you willing to actually do testing and come to Kusari for me to prove it to you, or do you want to continue this willful ignorance so you may continue arguing?

I await your answer when I wake up tomorrow morning.

Sure, I'll run my GRN bomber out there later.

Wait...you're saying anyone with anything except a mk 8 upgrade is an idiot? Why do we have 8 marks of armour if you're only supposed to mount one?

I'm saying any bomber that expects to go up against a cruiser or anything larger should either stay the hell out of weapons range and rely on their superior agility, or mount enough armor to survive hits from the enemy.

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[Caribe]

Now then I might not play any more but I seem to be getting this perspective:

"Good" / "Old" player dies to "crappy" ship.

"Good" / "Old" player whines about the ship that killed him is uber and needs to nerfed.

You know with stuff like this I should play again with a starflier killing capital ships until someone screams that starflier needs a nerf. Then we would have the weaponless starflier as a ramming tool.

In fact. Maybe we should just trash all the ships and just keep the starfliers with level 1 sheild, no armor upgrades, level 1 weapons, no mines no missile, no cm, etc. Then lets see how many people whine about stuff being over powered and yada yada yada.

Heck lets just make our lives simple and hope that I don't see more posts like these.

Take all the ships of the same class and give the SAME stats.

All LF same stats.
All HF same stats.
All VHF same stats.
All SHF same stats.
All Bombers same stats.
All Gunboats same stats.
All Cruisers same stats.
All Battleships same stats.
All Freighters same stats.
All Transports same stats.
All Liners same stats.

Seriously don't you people ever get tired of talking about the same stuff over and over again in a never ending discussion about making "improvements" to a game that will most probably never be equally balanced because if you try to fix one side the other one collapses.

I have been hearing the same damn complaints since 4.77 and it's NEVER been equally balanced so get over it people. Geeeeeeez!




End of Rant

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Been here since Discovery 4.77 (lurk mode engaged)

I have recently met and discussed with Atalawohisdi the trader that flies the Caribe. Just so everyone knows, I engaged in Sigma 13. He flies through half the system before going back to New Berlin, where he cruises from one side of the system to the other, hugging the sun as close as he can. All the while, he flies near Battleships trying to scrape me off. I finally send out the white flag, and move back to Sigma 13. However, it was a ruse, and he bit. Knowing his trade route, I interdicted the trade lane and the chase began anew. It ended, an hour after it began, with me retreating, out of Countermeasures and getting very irritated.

He kept boasting how he has never been caught; I'd like to see him beat until he begs to pay, then beaten some more.

- Best day ever.